What told you that no holy spirit was moving the BOE?

by Crumpet 38 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Crumpet

  I've read on and off here of various things that told people that god's spirit was not directing the organisation.

  Personally for me on the last time I got dfed it was the fact that I got reinstated by a meeting of the BOE at the exact same moment I was smoking my first cigarettes in 7 months. I didnt question it exactly but it did seem odd. I mean I had no idea that they were discussing my reinstatement at that moment that I succumbed and had decided in my favour. Of course I told them and so the announcement was never made, but effectively you are reinstated at the moment they decide it as directed by god's spirit theoretically. Wouldnt that make an elder think twice about how well the spirit was directing them...

  What was your experience? something that happened to you or you witnessed happening to someone else that gave you an inkling the spirit must be faulty or not existent?
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  Gopher

  Personally when I had a JC meeting and was DF'd based on lies and exaggerations coming from the "pioneer sister" to whom I happened to be married at the time. Her scheme worked, I was out of there. (Not that I'd ever want to go back.)

  That accuser was DF'd (for good cause which she confessed) a few months later, and we were soon separated / divorced. Yet the elder body never came back to me saying there might have been a mistake in my case.

  I thought that if holy spirit was involved at all, it would have been obvious to the elders that I was being lied about.
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  IP_SEC

  my own appointment.
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  Lady Liberty

  For me it was many many things, but one of the worst was when the Circuit Overseer took the lies and gossip being spread around the circuit about us and continued to spread them himself. Never once visiting or calling us to see if they were true. Yet eagerly meeting with our relatives and close friends that are still in warning them of our suposed activities.. what were the activities?? That we started our own website, and that we have started a religion, and are printing and distributing our own literature. NONE of which are true! Let me tell you they DO NOT have Jehovahs backing unless Jehovah somehow has changed his ways and now approves of lying, disciept, slander and coverups!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
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  Doubting Bro

  My first elders meeting when there was obvious dissension among the BOE almost to the point of blows. And, the fact that we never cracked open the Bible but instead had the Flock book and the letters from the Service Department. After "serving" for almost 10 years, I saw no proof whatsoever that there was anything guiding any BOE other than communications from Bethel & COs.
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  troubled mind

  For many years I believed with my whole heart that these men had direction from God ....As my own children grew we taught them to listen to these men and not second guess their council because they did everything for our own good ..... By the time my kids reached their teen years they became much more aware than I had been . They already knew from watching the Elders that these guys were full of it . My kids opened my eyes . I had to finally admit my thinking had been foolishness . At one time we had over 50 kids under the age of 18 in our hall nearly( half the congregation ). One thing I can tell you for a fact these kids always knew what was going on and with who. My kids were aware of how JC's were being conducted( one of their friends had an elder screaming in his face at a JC.). They knew which pioneer was an alcoholic , how the Elder with his own business treated his workers . How the elders daughter knew how and what to say at her JC to get out of her marriage and adultry charge w/o being DF'd . How the Elders son knew how to lie to always get around wrong doing . How the Elder's grandson was never DF'd for smoking or watching porn , but the kid w/o connections did the same things and was DF'd. We then experienced regular teen behavior such as trying smoking, dating girls , seeing R rated movies and going to concerts. The Elders were on our doorstep in our business quite a bit of the time . I did not appreciate them assuming we held no standards up for our children . I also resented that they would not respect our decisions as parents on how we disciplined our own kids. The final straw though came when my youngest wanted to get baptised . I had asked each of my sons to wait until they were over 18 to make this decision . Especially my youngest because he had some serious emotional issues, and personal problems . But he wanted to fit in and feel accepted ,his own words. Well I prayed earnestly that Jehovah knew his problems , and that if holy spirit was directing the BOE they would see he was in no condition to be baptised . Not one elder asked our opinion of his spiritual readiness......They went through the questions and granted his wishes w/o our consent or blessings . Afterwards several MS and Elders commented to me NOW we will really be able to help him ..... WTF where have you been the past 16 yrs ! The TMS servant started grooming him for priviledges . When my son showed he had a mind of his own they turned on him and started rumors about him . Told others to Beware of him ......then nit picked stupid things about him like his hair , clothes ect..... I then knew without a doubt I had been a sucker all these years . They are Just men .They have no spiritual direction from God .
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  BluesBrother

  When they appointed me an elder , and I knew that I was not qualified...Then when I got into the BOE and I saw how things worked, I soon realized that H/S was not the moving force. Mind you, I still hung around for decades and rationalized it all . Do they call that dissonance?
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  reneeisorym

  Cause they wouldn't answer my questions. They only said, "well if its not God's Org, where will you go?" or "Well if you don't believe it, that makes you an apostate and you'll die at armageddon."
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  greendawn

  They appointed as an elder the son in law of the leading elder when he was obviously not mature enough for this though an otherwise nice person. It was no doubt his father in law that did it to gain more influence in the congo. Other dubs who were more qualified and aspiring to eldership were badly disappointed when they were bypassed.
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  AlanF

  The first thing was when, more than 30 years ago, I was appointed a Ministerial Servant. I had not been consulted in any way; the PO simply announced it during a Service Meeting. I was irritated, but accepted. But I knew something was not kosher.

  A year or two later, a nasty situation arose between an elder and a MS. Seems there was bad blood between their families going back some years, and the elder took advantage of an oversight by the MS to try to get him disfellowshipped. The MS had been a pioneer, and after he got married and quit the pioneer ranks, gradually worked up his part time lawn cutting business into a full time landscaping business. He started hiring a young man on an as-needed basis and paid him in cash. Eventually the business grew enough that the MS hired this guy fairly often, still paying him in cash. The elder had a construction business, and the occasion arose when he wanted to hire this young man, but wanted to deduct taxes and so forth from his paycheck, paying him as if he were a regular employee. The young man objected, saying that the MS paid him in cash. The elder then blew this all up into a formal accusation before a Judicial Committee that the MS had grossly violated Caesar's law on taxes, and should be disfellowshipped. The body of elders then went back and forth for some six months, voting to let the matter slide, voting to privately or publicly reprove, and voting to disfellowship. After calling in a 2nd committee from neighboring congregations, it was finally decided to let the matter drop, since it was not the business of elders to police the business practices of any individual. At the time, the MS was about 23-24 years old and the elder was fortyish.

  I knew about these things because my step-dad was one of these Keystone Kops elders who couldn't make up their minds, and the MS was a good friend. Both told me what was going on. Well of course this raised the question in my mind of how the holy spirit could possibly be directing the actions of these idiot elders, and this led to questioning whether holy spirit had anything to do with their appointments as elders in the first place. I raised these questions with a couple of these idiot elders, and of course they couldn't tell me a thing of substance. Eventually my questions were given to the Circuit Overseer (one Wesley Benner, who became infamous as the CO who spearheaded the kangaroo JC that DF'd Raymond Franz some years later), who after a dinner one evening took me aside to try to answer the questions. After some discussion I put it to him bluntly: "So you're telling me that when the Society says that elders are appointed by holy spirit, what they really mean is that IF the body of elders doing the appointing PERFECTLY go along with the Bible's inspired qualifications for eldership, then IT CAN BE SAID that, IN EFFECT, the elder has been appointed by holy spirit?" He literally hung his head, paused and answered Yes. At that point I knew I'd been had by the Watchtower organization, and I never trusted anything coming from Brooklyn again.

  AlanF