And, maybe, it is not too late.

by nvrgnbk 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    Having said that, do you really think that the out-of-control consumerism in the world today is a good thing?

    I see you didn't read my entire post. My primary objection to that rant is the way it was presented. It does not inspire deep thought, it inspires panic. You can understand, with my JW experience, why unthinking action bothers me. If you really want to get in to my objections, we can work through the assumptions one at a time.

    But slavery, a word you find objectionable because of the negative connotation it carries, is alive and well in the world. I'm sure you're as frustrated about that as I am.

    Slavery is dying. It will be gone in my lifetime. Here in the West, we deliberately seek out purchases that were NOT produced from a third world country. That is considered a "good thing" here. My son-in-law, however, had a quite different reaction. He is angry that I am not supporting jobs from these poor countries he came from. From their perspective, no matter how substandard WE would consider their working conditions, is their ticket out of poverty.

    I maintain that slavery was too strong a word and comes with a whole bunch of emotive concepts.

    I like to be clear when I talk to people.

    For the same reason, I generally avoid the word "cult".

    eclipse:radical as a huge protest rallies, spray painting the large corporations with red paint, kidnapping the CEO's to get people to listen????.

    Yes, like that. I find such protests to be distasteful.

  • mtsgrad
    mtsgrad

    ...and time to buy a PS3!

  • eclipse
    eclipse
    e: huge protest rallies, spray painting large corporations with red paint, kidnapping the CEO's to get people to listen????.

    jgnat: boycotting certain corporations, lobbying for new legislation, or, heaven forbid, askfor a donation to the "cause"?

    Which of these would you considered ''radical''?

    protests have also brought about good changes. Without some of the protest rallies in the past 20th century, things would of remained the same. http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/Protests.asp

    Kidnapping is radical and totally unecessary,

    I was using it to illustrate what RADICAL actually is.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    I'm surprised and disappointed jgnat.

    I've never addressed you with anything but respect.

    I feel I'm getting a little less than that in return.

    If you disagree with my outlook on things, that's great.

    But please don't tell me what I've read or haven't read.

    I don't think I've treated you in a manner deserving of that tone.

    Thanks

    BTW, this comment is posted publicly and not in a pm, because you've shown me undeserved disrespect in a public forum.

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Nvrgnbck:

    Disagreeing with someone is not disrespecting them. In truth, the words you posted were someone elses so Jnat was not even disagreeing with you but with the authors words. I too also found the piece loaded with hyberbole. For instance:

    And it is also time to end the nightmare of slavery to the diseased ideals of mindless growth, rapacious consumption, and the utterly insane notion that unrestrained self-interest ought not be controlled.

    Slavery implies a lack of freedom of choice. No one is forcing us to follow the diseased ideals of mindless growth, and rapacious consumption. We make that choice individually every time we go to the mall and by a bunch of useless junk we don't really need. It is our responsibility to spend our money wisely and responsibly. Just say no! We are not brainwashed morons without the power to see through consumer advertising or say no to salesman. Without demand, supply will be curtailed. Also, I have never met anyone promoting the notion that unrestrained self-interest ought not to be controlled. I'm sure there are some people like that somewhere but they are well, insane! The rest of us don't have to jump on their bandwagon. Without an audience, a madman spouting insanity is just talking to himself.

    Though the fundamental Freedom to pursue one's own interests is absolutely vital—even sacred and must be protected—we must stop justifying the cruel, unrestrained pursuit of wealth and power. We must stop Glorifying Greed with the now popular lie that unfettered avarice is our best guide down the Path of the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number!

    Fundamental freedom to pursue self-interest is sacred is a highly debatable statement. Sure, if we have the power to stop people justifying the cruel and unrestrained pursuit of wealth and power and glorifying greed, by all means give it our best shot. Again, I haven't ever run into a lot of these people, although I don't doubt a few of them do exist.

    It is time to heal, to restore ourselves, our communities, and our planet. It is time to remember and reclaim our power, to awaken and celebrate our spirit. It is time to discover and learn, to teach one another, and to share the truths we can each perceive with our own minds using our own eyes and our own ears. It is time to put our world back right.

    Sounds great! Anyone actually have a viable plan to make any of that happen? Talk is cheap. I actually have met a lot of great people in this world working their asses off to make it a better place.

    And, maybe, it is not too late.

    Hopefully not!

    [Peace to all,

    Yes, peaceful protests are a good and time honored way to bring public attention to injustices. Kidnapping CEO's, and vandalising private and public property are not peaceful last time I checked. Just think what kind of world it would be if socially conscious me thought it was alright for me to spraypaint my greedy neighbour's monstrous house and gas guzzling SUV bright red. Or kidnap her CEO husband and hold him for ransom. It's Ok because my intentions were good. I was going to give all the money to environmental causes! Hopefully, the hungry, homeless guy down the street won't take exception to my middle class little bungalow and 4 cylinder vehicle!

    Cog

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    My objections to the tone of the response to my comments are just that. Concern about the tone.

    The statement was made to myself,

    I see you didn't read my entire post.

    Not true. And certainly not a way to foster respectful and constructive dialogue.

    This statement too was made,

    You can understand, with my JW experience, why unthinking action bothers me.

    The losses I've incurred, the amount I sacrificed and invested as part of "my JW experience" is, in my opinion, made to sound of little import compared with the "JW experience" of the person making the statement. I am sure the two "experiences" are in no way comparable.

  • AlphaOmega
    AlphaOmega

    I haven't read the entire thread, simply skimmed through it. Sorry if this is duplicated.

    NVR Said

    I am hopefeul about the future, about humanity. But we're on a dangerous course. I don't count on God to fix it. I think people can and will. It begins with awareness.

    The timing of that comment is amazing concerning the PM that I sent you last night. That could have been a direct quote from the first book that I mentioned.

    Spooky.

    (Always feel guilty when I use that icon - Warlock may be on the prowl )

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    The timing of that comment is amazing concerning the PM that I sent you last night. That could have been a direct quote from the first book that I mentioned.

    Spooky.

    Everyday, I experience "connections" of the type you describe. I think they've always been there. We are aware of them or we are not.

    I thoroughly enjoyed the pm and again must tell you how much I respect your way of describing your faith AO.

    I look forward to many interesting conversations with you.

  • brinjen
    brinjen
    And it is also time to end the nightmare of slavery to the diseased ideals of mindless growth, rapacious consumption, and the utterly insane notion that unrestrained self-interest ought not be controlled. Though the fundamental Freedom to pursue one's own interests is absolutely vital—even sacred and must be protected—we must stop justifying the cruel, unrestrained pursuit of wealth and power. We must stop Glorifying Greed with the now popular lie that unfettered avarice is our best guide down the Path of the Greatest Good for the Greatest Number!

    It is time to heal, to restore ourselves, our communities, and our planet. It is time to remember and reclaim our power, to awaken and celebrate our spirit. It is time to discover and learn, to teach one another, and to share the truths we can each perceive with our own minds using our own eyes and our own ears. It is time to put our world back right.

    And, maybe, it is not too late.

    [The above is an excerpt from the The Myth of Ozacua as found on the yoism website(www.yoism.org)]

    I agree with this statement nvr.

    jgnat, sorry to disagree with you, but from my perspective slavery is not dying. Australia's Workplace Relations Legislation is one example.

    http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:p7IdNXK16IkJ:www.workplace.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/E4E3D5FF-FAC8-46A4-A54D-D345636BDC13/0/wrlaicbill2006em.pdf+%22workplace+relations+legislation%22+%2B+australia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=au

    Some examples of what this legislation allows;

    No penalty rates for working overtime, public holidays or sundays.

    Less holiday and annual leave

    Your employer can fire you on the spot and not give you a reason

    They can fire you then offer you your job back at a substantially less wage

    One example, a large national company forced their employees to sign WPA's (workplace agreements). These agreements took away their penalty rates, holidays, sick leave etc. Put the employees on casual status (when they had been permanent) all in exchange for a pay rise of 2 cents per hour.

    BTW, one of the definitions of slavery is (according to encarta)

    3. hard work: very hard work, especially for low pay and under bad conditions

    I'm steering off course here, the point I intended to make was, I don't believe the above statement should incite panic, I don't see it. Yes there are many good things about this world, why not make it better? Why not stop and think how each of us can make it better?

    That's my interruptation...

  • AlphaOmega
    AlphaOmega

    post coming... formatting woes !

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