Christ is not mediator because Moses was not?

by LiveLife 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • LiveLife
    LiveLife

    The book Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace says, "Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind." (page 10, paragraph 16, emphasis added)

    *** w04 9/15 p. 26 Highlights From the Book of Deuteronomy ***14:21—Why could the Israelites give to an alien resident or sell to a foreigner an unbled dead animal that they themselves would not eat? In the Bible, the term "alien resident" could refer to a non-Israelite who became a proselyte or to a settler who lived by basic laws of the land but who did not become a worshiper of Jehovah. A foreigner and an alien resident who did not become a proselyte were not under the Law and could use unbled dead animals in various ways. The Israelites were permitted to give or sell such animals to them. The proselyte, on the other hand, was bound by the Law covenant. As indicated at Leviticus 17:10, such a person was forbidden to eat the blood of an animal.

    Was Moses the mediator for proselytes? Could not proselytes be from anywhere on earth; from among mankind in general? Even Rahab and Ruth, ancestresses of Jesus? Even an unnamed Ethiopian eunuch who was baptized before Cornelius? Even a mixed crowd of Jews and proselytes mentioned in Acts 2 as being among the 3,000 souls added in one day?

    Despite their attempt to twist Scripture to suit their authority structure, Moses was the mediator for all mankind. Unfortunately, admitting this would mean no one needs the mediatorship of a book publishing company. The masses would look to Christ instead, and so this detail must be dealt with deceitfully.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    To simplify things, let's just say that Moses was the mediator between the God of Israel and all who believed in that God. Moses was NOT a mediator to just the "priest class" or any other subset of Israel.

    For Christians, Jesus would be the mediator between God and all who believe in God. To say that Jesus was just a mediator to a "priestly class" or "spiritual Israelites" is a shell game meant to inforce the imagined authority of one class over another.

    After all, weren't we told as JW's to pray to have sins forgiven "in the name of Jesus"? If we were to pray that way, then surely we were being told to ask for mediation through Jesus.

    Christians aren't told in the Bible that they need earthly intercessors (such as a "priestly class") for forgiveness of sins, only faith.

    (Full disclosure: I don't claim to be a Christian, but I was an avid Bible student at one time.)

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    What does "mediator" mean? What's the job description of a mediator? Duties?

  • LiveLife
    LiveLife

    Go-between, intercessor, reconciler between two or more estranged parties.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    What was Moses mediating? What dispute? Did he resolve it? Was he a good and successful referee between God and his adversaries?

    What did Jesus mediate? What was his mediation case? Was he successful?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    "Mediator" is not really a distinct OT notion in the sense that Biblical Hebrew has no specific word for it -- the Greek word mesitès only appears in the quite "free" LXX rendering of Job 9:33 where it corresponds to no Hebrew noun. However it becomes a key notion in Hellenistic Judaism (especially Philo), applying to angels, Moses, or the high priest. There the "mediation" notion can be construed in a theological (between God and men) or cosmological (between heaven and earth) way. In that sense it is potentially (not necessarily actually)universalistic. That is, the mediator -- who is not necessarily unique, as is obvious in the case of angels -- is the "bridge" of saving communication between the two realms, but the communication doesn't necessarily extend to all.

    Where the WT departs from the Hellenistic Christian doctrine(s) of mediatorship is, as ever, by positing an indirect or second-hand communication for a category of believers. Their doctrine of Jesus as mediator for "only the 144,000" (assuming that there is another group of Christians not included in that mediation) is just one application of this unscriptural pattern.

  • LiveLife
    LiveLife

    Narkissos,

    the "bridge" of saving communication between the two realms, but the communication doesn't necessarily extend to all.

    I think Jesus was a mediator in that sense. Restoration of the possiblity of a relationship. I believe it doesn't necessarily extend to all. Not because it isn't available to all. Rather, like High Speed Internet, not everyone will avail themselves of it.

  • AllAlongTheWatchtower
    AllAlongTheWatchtower

    I've never gotten this mediator concept, even when I was a believer, and I'm an atheist now. It's like, hey buddy, god's a toughguy, come jump on the bandwagon of christianity, and Jesus will be your lawyer against big ol mean OT god. To me, it's just more evidence of the disparate nature of OT god vs NT Jesus. Yet people talk about god being a god of love, to be loved. Who needs a lawyer to love a hanging judge?

    Also...it seems to me that the WTS is creating new doctrine here, intentionally or not...

    "The book Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace says, "Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind." (page 10, paragraph 16, emphasis added)" - LiveLife

    Red coloring is mine, to emphasize a point; it seems to me they're saying the God of Abraham and the god Jehovah are two different entities...having never been a JW myself, I don't know if this is "new light" or what, but it seems odd considering how much they despise the trinity concept, yet appear to make a case here for two different gods...or perhaps I'm just interpreting it wrong.

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    If Moses was the mediator for Abraham, then he was the mediator for all mankind. Remember the little thing called the Abrahamic covenant that was to bless all families of the earth?

    In the same fashion, Jesus claimed to be the one mediator between God and mankind. He said he came to save the world, not judge it as the jws do.

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    i have nothing to add...this is just a really interesting thread but it is so late where I am, my mind cannot digest it right now...

    carry on....

    SnakesInTheTower ()

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