I am a little confused.
You Know,
Are you an active JW?
LOOKING FOR THE TRUTH - I AM NEW HERE
by erik 46 Replies latest jw friends
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concerned fiance
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You Know
I am an active Jehovah's Witness. What are you confused about? / You Know
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Satanus
concerned
YouKnow is confused too. Jws have an ability known as mental acrobatics. This allows them to jump over problems in their belief system. YK is a champion at this. He is quite impressive. I'm serious about this, i used to do it myself. Take whatever he says with a grain of salt.
S
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concerned fiance
You Know,
You said that others do have other interpretations of the wild beast, but they are not reasonable...whose interpretation is that? Yours. Is it fair to limit what information you provide to a person seeking answers by restricting on the basis of what you believe is reasonable? Isn't reasonableness upto each individual person to decide?
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Yerusalyim
As to the Pagan orgins of the memorial, any study of antropology of the region reveals that the Feast of Unleaven Bread, and Redeeming the first born were rites celebrated my many pagan tribes LONG BEFORE the advent of the Passover feast as celebrated by the Jews. God Just gave it a different meaning. Just so it is with Christmas, Easter, etc. All dedicated to God.
Robert, Scripture does NOT call the wine and the bread symbols, in fact Jesus says THIS IS my body/blood. It's a concrete reality but on mystical terms.
Naturally the Devil would like to distort the simple but powerful symbols associated with Jesus' sacrificial death.
I agree, and the WTBTS has done a grand job of this for Satan. Taking something that was to be shared by ALL Christians (Take this ALL OF YOU and eat it) and denying it to most of them. Limiting it to Once a year when Paul clearly shows this was done WHENEVER THEY Gathered, calling it ONLY a symbol, denying Christ's own words. Yep, Satan has found a way to mock and imitate what Christ wanted in the JW memorial. Imagine being invited to a dinner party, the feast of the Lamb, but being told you can't eat.YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"] -
You Know
I have no desire to keep information from you. If you want to know what other interpretations there are why don't you simply enter in the words "wild beast revelation" into a search engine and see what comes up? / You Know
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Yerusalyim
Bowing out of the discussion already?
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"] -
You Know
something that was to be shared by ALL Christians (Take this ALL OF YOU and eat it) and denying it to most of them.
Jesus was speaking to those whom he called the "little flock." He said that they had been approved for inheriting the kingdom and that they would be rulers. That's why Jesus said that he made a covenant with them for a kingdom. Not all Christians are part of the kingdom. Jesus said that he had other sheep who were not of the little flock that was going to rule.
Limiting it to Once a year when Paul clearly shows this was done WHENEVER THEY Gathered, calling it ONLY a symbol, denying Christ's own words.
The Jews celebrated the Passover onve every year. The memorial is a once a year observance on the anniversary of Jesus' death. As for believing that wine and bread mystically changes to Jesus bloood and flesh: that's not reasonable nor is it Scriptural. Jehovah always used sysmbols. Baptism is a symbol. Bread and wine are symbols. It is our faith in Jesus sacrifiacl death and what it meant. To believe that God myteriously changes fermented grape juice into the blood of Jesus that was shed 2,000 years ago is to miss the point entirely.
Imagine being invited to a dinner party, the feast of the Lamb, but being told you can't eat.
Worse yet, imagine how God views someone who wasn't invited presumptuously crashing the party. / You Know
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Yerusalyim
Robert,
Once again you're mistaken on every issue. Jesus called them little flock what, once or twice? WHY? Because at the time they were indeed small in number. Yet didn't Jesus say that the "other sheep" would also become ONE FLOCK? You've twisted two unrelated scriptures to come up with one WRONG doctrine. John 10 Says nothing of the "little flock" It says that Jesus came to call the sheep, and that there are "other sheep" i.e. those not of the House of Israel, who would be called and that there would ONE FLOCK and ONE SHEPHERD. No where in this passage is a "little flock" mentioned. You and the WTS have taken two unrelated scriptures and made one WRONG doctrine. SHow me where Christ says some Christians aren't part of the Kingdom. Jesus came for the express reason of ANNOUNCING the kingdom.
The Jews indeed celebrated the Passover once a year (and the JW's still get the date wrong) HOWEVER, the CHRISTIANS celebrated the EUCHARIST at least weekly. Acts 2:42; 1 Cor 11:17-34, and other scriptures bear this out. The first Christians didn't limit themselves to once a year.
Worse yet, imagine how God views someone who wasn't invited presumptuously crashing the party.
But then by this rational all 11 million or whatever invited to the Memorial should be partaking of the emblems. Better yet, no one should because Jesus said, "Keep doing this until I come" and according to the WTS he came back in 1914. ILLOGICAL and just plain WRONG.YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"] -
concerned fiance
Good points Yerusalyim. I have read your points Robert, but it seems that you seem to skirt answering most of the questions directly by giving a roundabout answer. How come the 607 date is ok if there is no exact evidence to support it? How come secular history is not reliable and yet most Jehovahs Witnesses rely on the encyclopedia date of 537 to start the count of 70 years from Jeremiah 25:12? How come you won't answer the blood questions directly? How come you did not address whether the 144,000 were supposed to be perfect, men that were virgins according to Revelation?
These are just some of the questions that I have