Ray Franz and September, 11

SANDMAN

Hey Folks,

I just read a letter from a friend in Brazil where he express his happiness about the translation to portuguese of his book "In search for christian freedom" that is coming. I would like to share some thoughts of Ray Franz about the terrorist attacks in 11/09:

> "Dear XXX,
>
> Thank you for the good news...
>
> ...
>
> The recent events in New York and Washington are truly depressing and
> remind me of Solomon´s words at Ecclesiastes 1:15: 'what is crooked
> cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be counted.' All
> human efforts to remedy conditions are ultimately futile because they
> cannot eliminate the root cause which is sin. And any belief or faith
> that is not founded on faith in the ransom sacrifice through God´s
Son
> becomes meaningless...

> ...Some would reduce Christianity to philosophical and ethical
tenets,
> as if the Sermon on the Mount totally sums up his teaching, but this
> misses the major and crucial point. As Christ said, he came to
'give
> his life a ransom for many.' (Matthew 20:28).
>
>
> Nationalism, such as the view that God's blessing is
> particularly on some country such as the U.S., partakes of
> the same mentality as the religious exclusivistic thinking
> characterizing the WT organization and their being a
> 'special people with special divine favor'. The recent
> events have had somewhat of a wakeup effect on people in
> this land; and yet Americans have had but a small taste of
> what others have gone through. In some African lands, not
> just thousands, but millions of people have been cruelly
> slaughtered. Because it´s over there, things like that don´t
> seem to matter much to most Americans...
>
> ...
>
> Ray"

It seems that the poor Ray are in some way a little exclusivist regards christianity too. What do you think?

Celia

SANDMAN,
What exactly do you mean with "exclusivist" ???
Did you ask for permission before you posted Ray's letter to this guy ???

JanH

Ray Franz' beliefs are in this sense at least 99% JW.

- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

Eyebrow

Why should this surprise anyone? the man is not god. He has sincere beliefs, and has expressed them.

Whether one agrees with him or not, at least he is not letting PC dictate how he states his views.

Eyebrow

Oh...also...I wanted to add this note:

I really don't believe that God is behind any one nation. What sense would that make? I personally believe that the US is justified in this struggle against terrorism.

If this really is Ray's letter, he does make a valid point. Many Americans don't care a whole lot about what is going on in other countries unless it affects them. But this applies to people in most countries as well. "out of site, out of mind" is a very human thing. It was a horrible wake up call for most of us.

SANDMAN

Celia,

1. The belief the favor of God are for a limited group of people, like Jehovah's witnesses, remember?
2. The Gentlemen who shared the message put some parts of the letter in a public mailing list here in Brazil, no problem in share there is no secret there, furthermore I preserved his name.

Best regards,

SANDMAN

JanH

While the belief that NT eschatological promises is the ultimate solution to problems is pretty typical of Christians generally, the belief that all human efforts to improve the situation are "futile" is typical JW-speak. That part of his letter could have been taken directly from a Watchtower. It probably was.

Many Christian organizations engage in humanitarian efforts to help people. I don't think that is at all futile.

I see supernaturalistic fatalism as part of the problem, not a solution.

- Jan
--
"Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

SANDMAN

Eyebrown,

Thanks for you reply.

I just would like to bring this subject to discussion, if you don't want to be criticized, never speak (somebody here told).

The letter was shared for one of man who translated crisis of conscience (CRISE DE CONSCIENCIA) to portuguese, his site is www.agevir.com.br/testemunha.

All the best,

SANDMAN

D wiltshire

Sandman,

Thanks alot! I always enjoy Ray's Thoughts. He noble and Just. (IMHO)

If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?

anewperson

Ray correctly said that when millions die (as in the Sudan where the Muslim fundamentalist government butchers Christians), so long as overseas, most in the USA have paid it relatively little attention - which is sad but true.

Ray Franz and September, 11

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