JW Competition-Pope says other Christians not true churches!

by lonelysheep 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Columbo

  Nothing revolutionary here. This has been Catholic teaching for ages.

  The news story is distorting what the Pope was saying, however. He was using a strict Catholic definition of "church" (groups with priests and bishops that can supposedly be traced back to the Apostles) and calling other groups "ecclesial communions" or congregations of believers, which is how most people define "church" anyway.

  Basically he was saying the Catholic Church has the full set of tools while others have some but not all. That's debateable of course , but nothing new.

  Some telling quotes from the document: "It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them." <--- basically Protestants and others have good stuff and that Christ operates through them too.

  Also: "It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation..." <---- you can find Christ and salvation in other denominations.

  I don't see how its a surprise that the Pope thinks the Catholic Church has the "truth". He wouldn't be Pope otherwise.

  Finally, this is MUCH different than JW teaching on "apostate Christendom."
• 

  Wordly Andre

  I agree with Columbo, I mean wouldn't it seem stupid for the pope to say ohh hey guys we may not be the one true church?? duhh Anyway if it was made public all the crap that JW's spew, how silly would they look? Catholics just get more coverage in the news, than most other religions, so its not a shock to me to see something the pope says as taken harsh, or made news worthy.
• 

  minimus

  The Muslim fundies won't like that!
• 

  Wordly Andre

  when was the last time they liked anything??
• 

  AllAlongTheWatchtower

  I've been following various stories about Catholicism lately, it seems like there's some situation coming to a head there. Started off with an edict reviving the Latin mass...hell, I didn't even know they STOPPED saying the mass in Latin, thought that was kinda their trademark. After doing some reading on the net though, it appears that the pope just stepped backwards about 40 years; reversing the Second Vatican Council of the 60s... Apparently the Latin mass also annoys Jewish folks, because there's a line in it about converting Jews on Easter or something.

  So, now the pope only needs to say something about Muslim terrorism, and Hindus eating beef to prevent starvation in India, and he can have damn near everybody pissed at Catholics.

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070708/wl_nm/pope_latin_headache_dc
• 

  eclipse

  Is the pope purposely adding fire to an already volatile religious situation in the world?
• 

  Columbo

  Yeah, they never stopped using Latin. There was a new version of the mass (called the Novus Ordo) that came out in 1970 or so that changed some of the liturgy. It also allowed for use of english and other languages but Latin was still the ordinary language though rarely used. The old version (called the Tridentine Rite) was suppressed probably so there would be unity. Some Catholics were ticked and were allowed permission to use the old liturgy under certain circumstances in the 1980's I think. Pope Benedict loosened the restrictions even further last week for those that like the old liturgy better. This isn't a reversal of Vatican II since the newer liturgy is still primary.

  The lines from the old liturgy that are really offensive to Jews were removed in 1962 and I think that they are still gone.

  Still, most everyone is ticked at Catholics anyway :).
• 

  What-A-Coincidence

  Pope and Jaracz are uniting!
• 

  Columbo

  "Is the pope purposely adding fire to an already volatile religious situation in the world?"

  I doubt it. I think he is more trying to deal with internal problems. Loosening the old liturgy was probably done to bring back a splinter group that left over disagreements with the new liturgy. Today's document on churches is aimed at correcting two groups of Catholic theologians, one which says that those outside of Catholicism have no chance of salvation and another group that says every group has equal truth. That's my analysis, anyway.

  Unfortunately, this stuff is always reported in sensationalistic terms.
• 

  Wordly Andre

  Once again I agree with Columbo