I noticed some websites that showed subliminal imagery in the WT publications. Some common ones are occult symbols, skulls, goat heads, etc... How many of you guys came across it?
Subliminal imagery in the WT publications
by icyestrm 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Arthur
This topic has been thrown about, bounced about, hashed, and rehashed ad infinitum. There is absoutely no evidence that the WT has purposely put subliminal images into its artwork.
The evidence is that the people who make these "discoveries" are nothing more than individuals who have over-active immaginations, and perhaps might even have a bit of a meth problem.
The human mind is very adept at finding whatever it is actively looking for - whether it be goat heads, warlock images, ghostly figures, skulls, or genitals for that matter.
The WTS has published enough silliness and nonsense for us to make known without us having to venture off into Twighlight Zone fantasies.
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AWAKE&WATCHING
Look at post history of member seven006 and find his posts on this subject, very interesting.
Sorry, I don't know an easier way to tell you to find it.
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OnTheWayOut
I have seen some very compelling evidence and very compelling reasons to believe there
was some subliminal imagery in the WT publications.HOWEVER, I was given very compelling reasons to become a JW, and that turned out to
be wrong.
Ray Franz never spoke of it in his books.
No upper echelon members or secondary upper members have ever confirmed such.It is possible (but who knows) that bored people in art did it.
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greendawn
Some of it is really there in their publications but some of it is imagined. It is also doubtful whether such subliminal images have any effect on those looking at them, but it does show occultic leanings in the org.
On the other hand these could be practical jokes by the art people in the org.
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emptywords
When I first heard about this, I thought it was the over use of someones immagination. But thats not really true, in some instances they can get carried away, but some not so.
After the watchtower study I pointed out the picture of mask and eyes on the cloth on rope (WT Feb 1st 2007 page 18) she saw it, then I approached an elder, he saw it and said dont' worry about it, doesn't mean anything. Thats just a recent example, there are past subliminals in JW litrature.
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Tatiana
I don't know if this is true or not. I'm still researching. I'm just posting for different views on this.
http://www.welcome.to/witnesscd
Towards the end of 2006 I had been contacted by a Jehovah's witnesses of some 32 years loyal service. I guy called Mr. JW. He looked at this website and the cd on ebay and could not deny the facts any longer, you see, he was an artist!!!!! and he knows how subliminals are incorporated into larger paintings, so he wrote to the Watchtower in New York and London and asked them what was going on?His letters to the Watchtower, their replies and what happened to him are one of only a few links that are currently active while I re-format my wife's story. Anyway! In short! The Elders came to Mr. JW's home and viewed the satanic subliminals. They were shown the Knowledge book, page 35, and they agreed that they could see them and said they would look into this. After 32 years of absolute and total loyal service, the elders returned to this guy's home, to get him to attend a meeting where they could say in private that he was disfellowshipped.
Yes, ...the Watchtower surely did send their "warm love and Christian greetings"!
They got rid of him in RECORD time!
He asked a concerned and sincere question about the images, that he was told by elders from the Seaham Congregation, were there! All this was recorded on video. He was then invited to a meeting, where the evidence he had presented was admittedly not even looked at or examined. All recorded on video and then audio tape. Then, after 32 years of unbending, loyal service, he was treated like a criminal ..........and all this took place in just 3 days!Quotes from youtube....
After 32 years, a Jehovah's witness was disfellowshipped by the Watchtower for showing the evidence of Satanic art work in their own publications, to his own elders
The guy who videoed the elders is real stressed out and ill. He was due to move houses with his wife, Daisy and was ready for the move. He then saw his wife in a car with the old elder on the video, talking. Then she suddenly said, "Why don't you just go and I'll stay here"! Mr. JW has now agreed to move out and find a single place of his own. After 32 years, he lost not only all his so called friends, but his wife and their family home... thanks for asking.
The guy, (Mr. JW) is an artist. He examined the evidence and invited the elders round. These were life time friends. They admitted they could see how the subliminals were encoded. After this, Mr JW was gotten rid off very quickly. His life / wife changed and the stress made him ill. Please see his letters to the WT and their replies at witnesscd. Bring up Google and type in saifai and follow links to the Seaham page, thanks for asking.
Although I can't seem to find the links to the brother's letters to the society. Bring up Google and type in saifai and follow links to the Seaham page, ......can anyone find these?
I have to say, though, these videos are "interesting."
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUIkJQJcd48
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LrSMS8tniA
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfsB6w-vow
Part 4 of 4 The elders return to Mr. JW's home and are confronted at the door about the subliminals!
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Tatiana
I actually did find his letters to the society. I don't know if
anyone here was associated with the Seaham congregation. This seems
genuine, but I don't know. These letters pertain to the YouTube video #4.(This is his letter to the Watchtower).
7- 11- 06
This letter is to the secret person of the London Bethel --- Code EFYou said in you last letter to me that you appreciate I have genuine
concerns over the Demon Art in the Watchtower publications, and that
is correct. I am for you not against you. I have a strong desire to
keep Gods People clean and myself included.
I have taken your advice and informed the elders. Two elders came to
my house and asked to see the images in the publications. I had a
video running to record the occasion. It was not hidden, it was in
view. On the video I have both elders saying they can see the satanic
images. After the visit I decided to tell a number of brothers who I
thought were my friends and shortly after this (within a week) I
received a call from Colin Burton that a DDC had been formed and I was
invited to the meeting. I said I would not be attending because I had
given them the evidence of what was going on. (There was no need).
Colin Burton called at my house after the meeting and said you have
been Dfs.
The two elders that came to my house Dfs me. I have served as an
elder and I am shocked that a Ddc could do this on the grounds of
according to C Burton 2 John 9,10. No explanation, all he would say
was 2 John 9,10. So this means I have not been informed of the reason
why I was Dfs. I appealed so as to get a reason out of them. The
reason came in the form of a call by Alan Sanderson 2 John 9.10. His
conversation was recorded. I was for you not against you. This is no
way to treat a brother. Yet Jesus said this happened to him and
reminds me not to expect anything less from wicked men. There was no
reason to kill Jesus. He spoke out and looks what his brothers did to
him.
The way the Org has treated me is unloving and patronising. You are
right when you said "Guard against Deception," The Org reflects its
father and I know without Doubt my father would not have treated me
this way. I was for you not against you.
In Isi 11 v 3 it says of Jesus "And he will not judge by any mere
appearance to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to the things
heard by his ears 4 And with righteousness he must judge the lowly
ones and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek
ones of the earth, And he must strike the earth with the rod of his
mouth". Have you followed the path of Jesus? I think not.
I will continue to serve my God and Jesus. I offer my skills as an
artist to my father to expose the Evil Art of the Watchtower. If my
father is for me you will see it and this Ungodly Organisation will be
exposed.Mr. JW then wrote to London...and this was his reply...
This is Mr. JW's letter to the Judicial Committee.
4 Oct 06
This letter is for the judicial committee to be held on Wed Oct 4 06
on the issue of SUBLIMINAL images found in the Watchtower
publications. I feel no need to defend my possession on this matter.
You must make a decision on the evidence I have shown Robert Dominican
and Harry Elliott.
I have had a meeting with two elders over the issue above and they
agree that they can see the DEMONIC images in the publications. Harry
Elliott said "yes I can see them" He even said to Robert "I had this
one ringed in the book of Rev for some reason years ago" (page 158 Rev
book, hand of Jesus) so did Robert Dominican agree their was an
unusual hand on page 52 of the Rev book and said Jokingly "he hasn't
been taking his tablets". I hope they don't deny they said this at
the meeting. This would make them LIARS and you know what will happen
to LIARS don't you?
I feel very sad that it has come to this, after 32 years of faithful
service. The Organisations stand on the matter is unbelievable. I
have two letters saying NO SUBLIMINALS. The last letter quotes the
July 15 WT 06 par 10 saying, "We have no reason to complain of
treachery with God's organisation today. Neither Jehovah nor his
angels not the spiritual shepherds tolerate the presence of
treacherous, wicked ones in the Christian congregation". Are they
saying I am wicked for seeing this art? What wrong have I done?
Should I repent over the actions of WICKED ARTISTS in Bethel? They
also say "If, after reviewing the two references mentioned above, the
letter) and in particular the section headed "Maintain a positive
Spirit" in the latter article, you still feel a need for additional
help, you might ask one of the elders for assistance. What a cheek.
I do not need elders to try to convince me to see nothing and to shut
up. I have a God given right to show my brothers what is in the MAGS.
Do you wish your rights to be taken away from you? If the Government
banned you from revealing truth would you stop? Do you wish me to go
against my God given conscience? Do you wish me to sin against my
conscience? I hope not. I have not asked for any help. Harry
Elliott came to my house and asked me what was the reason I was not
going to the meetings and I gave him the reasons, SUBLIMINAL DEMONIC
ART in the publications. May I make it clear, I have not asked for any
help because I do not need any help.
I have told a number of brothers my concerns. W Harrison, Bill Clark,
Alan from Seaham, sis Green and a bro from Washington Ron Tate. I
know this is enough to disffellowship me, so be it. This will not
stop me. If Jehovah is on my side it will become evident. May the
God of truth reveal what is going on, and may he deal with you as you
deal with me.
If you disffellowship me I would like you to give me the reason why. -------------------------------------------------------
After 32 years of absolute and total loyal service, the elders
returned to Mr. JW's home, they did not come in but insisted he attend
their meeting. (It later transpired that there decision had already
been made and all they wanted was to get him in, so they could tell
him that their original decision to disfellowship him had been
upheald). With video camera rolling, (see YouTube video #4), he
questioned them on his own front door as to what the meeting was about
and said, "If you tell me what your meeting is about, I'll come!" They
refused to answer him, only repeating, we want you to come to a
meeting! The judicial committee was held without him and he was
quickly informed of the Scripture 2 John 1 verse 9 & 10 He was
contacted by phone (which he recorded), and Mr. JW asked if they had
looked at and considered the evidence he provided for his "judicial"
they replied "NO". He informed the elder that he was taping his
conversation and that all other conversations / meetings would be
recorded. He also wrote and told the elders who examined the
subliminals they had had them on video, (YouTube videos #1-3),
ADMITTING they could see the subliminals that were pointed out to
them!
But he was disfellowshipped by the very same people who were involved
in examining the subliminals at his home just a few days earlier and
who had openly admitted on video that they could see how the halved
faced subliminals were in the paintings. The only reason they got rid
of him as fast as they did, was to silence him from what he had
discovered!
The fastest disfellowshipping on record!
29th November 2006 , Mr. JW came to my home and brought with him his
letters, (many more to be posted here soon, so make sure you inform
others and call back), he also brought the videos. We sat together in
my living room and watched the videos. Mr. JW showed the two elders
some subliminals from their own publications and with all sincerity
and concern for what was happening within his own organisation,
professionally and with the greatest respect for his Creator, and with
the utmost tact, showed only some the subliminals in the Knowledge
book. He pointed out how some of the images were painted in "entire
HALF'S" He said, "Can you see that half face?" Harry agreed and said,
"Yeah, yeah!" Mr. JW then revealed with a mirror, the full picture.
The elders took turns holding a small mirror, not much bigger than the
Knowledge book against the painting and could see exactly what was
concealed there.
While this guy (Mr. JW), sat next to me in my home, I telephoned this
elder, (Harry Elliott), who after seeing himself and admitting the
subliminals were there, was party to Mr. JW's outrageous and
unwarranted disfellowshipping! Harry's wife answered and I asked to
speak with a Mr. Harry Elliott, she asked who was calling and I
introduced myself as Paul Kevin, her voice suddenly stammered and
quivered as she called for her husband, shakily saying it was Paul
Kevin on the phone! He came to the phone and although I have to say we
had a good and fair conversation, the subject of the subliminals in hs
own publications was way too much for him to cope with, especially
when I came out and said I knew he (Harry) had examined the
subliminals at Mr. JW's home and he admitted he could see them.
(This Elder, whom I'd just watched on video admit to being able to see
how some of the subliminals were inserted in the painting), had no
idea that I knew what had been said between both himself and Mr. JW!
So when I repeated Harry's very own words (what he said at Mr. JW's
house, admitting he could see the subliminals), he blatantly denied it
to me, lying though his teeth saying, "I said no such thing!"
AND I HAD JUST WATCHED HIM ON VIDEO ADMIT IT!
I spoke openly about Mr. JW to Harry Elliott and he was deliberately
vague and tried to come across like he did not really know whom I was
speaking about when in fact, Harry had know Mr. JW for at least 25
years. Knowing Harry was playing dumb with me, I said, "You know who I
mean, ....Mr. JW.....he's an artist and you disfellowshipped him over
bringing to your attention the Satanic subliminals in the publications
you take in to people's houses!" The firm reply came back down the
phone, "He's not an artist!" "Well, I said, ....you know....the guy
who paints pictures!" He was just as vague and repeated that Mr. JW
couldn't not paint and was not an artist. This elder had known Mr. JW
for some 25 years and seen his work and it was not just an insult but
an out right lie that he was claiming Mr. JW could not paint. I had
the greatest of pleasure meeting Mr. JW and his family, speaking with
them on many WT & JW topics and they were lovely, sincere people. I
also had the chance to view Mr. JW's artistic work. Jehovah's
witnesses will recognise this painting below from the 2006 Watchtower
calendar, Acts 21:27 - 22:17 (Actual calendar in the bottom right hand
corner of the frame).
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Opinons, people???????? -
DeusMauzzim
What I would really like to know is if there is a connection between people that believe in subliminal images, people that believe in masonic wt connections and people that think evolution is a myth.
Guess what.. none of the above is true!
- Deus Mauzzim
(of the please please please increase critical thinking skills-class)
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emptywords
There's a subliminal in my right ear.......what is it?
