My disagreement with hubby on use of Jehovah's name around JW's...input

by megsmomma 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    I'm starting to call the Bible god 'Yahweh'. The society admits that it's more accurate, but they choose to use 'Jehovah' because it's more common... (If it's so common then why do all the dubs think that they're the ONLY ones using his name correctly.)

    The following article explains that most scholars agree that the correct way to pronounce it is "Yahweh" and then offers excuses for saying "Jehovah" anyway. (Emphasis mine of course)

    ***g733/22pp.27-28"Yahweh"or"Jehovah"?***

    "YourWordIsTruth"

    "Yahweh"or"Jehovah"?NAMES are important. Harvard University researchers found that not only were people influenced by the first names others had but the names that parents gave their children affected them either favorably or unfavorably.

    A study of the Bible shows that its Author appreciated the value of his name. Among his many titles are "the true God," "the Most High," "Sovereign Lord," "Grand Creator" and "King of eternity." In addition to these titles he has a distinctive name, sometimes referred to as the Tetragrammaton. It is so designated because of its four Hebrew letters that correspond to the English letters YHWH, or JHVH, the consonants forming the basis of the name "Jehovah."—Gen. 5:22; Ps. 83:18; 69:6; Eccl. 12:1; 1 Tim. 1:17.

    But how shall this Tetragrammaton be pronounced? The exact Hebrew pronunciation of it has been lost, since in ancient times Hebrew contained no written vowels and the pronunciation was handed down by word of mouth. By and large, there are two forms in use: "Yahweh," with the accent on the second syllable, and "Jehovah." Concerning the form "Jehovah," a Jesuit writer says: "It is disconcerting to see the divine name written as Jehovah, a 16th-century . . . error for Jahweh."—America, Nov. 27, 1971, p. 460.

    In the same vein the NewCatholicEncyclopedia says: "JEHOVAH, false form of the divine name Yahweh. The name Jehovah first appeared in manuscripts in the 13th century A.D., but had probably been in use for some time." (Vol. 7, p. 863) Likewise the RevisedStandardVersion translators objected to the form "Jehovah," stating that "the word ‘Jehovah’ does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew," and that "it is almost if not quite certain that the Name was originally pronounced ‘Yahweh.’" (P. vi.) Also, the modern Roman Catholic version known as TheJerusalemBible uses the form "Yahweh," even as does Rotherham’s EmphasisedBible.

    In view of these opinions, why do the witnesses of Jehovah prefer to use "Jehovah" rather than "Yahweh"? For one thing, no one can be certain just what the original pronunciation was, even as admitted by those who prefer "Yahweh." And further, the form "Jehovah" has a currency and familiarity that "Yahweh" does not have. "Yahweh" is obviously a transliteration, whereas "Jehovah" is a translation, and Bible names generally have been translated rather than transliterated. A transliteration usually sounds strange to the ears of those speaking the tongue into which the proper name has been transliterated.

    That there are valid reasons for using the form "Jehovah" can be seen from the fact that, while in both the Protestant RevisedStandardVersion and the Roman Catholic NewAmericanBible the name "Jehovah" does not appear, the translators of the NewEnglishBible have not shrunk back altogether from using it. Thus their translation at Exodus 3:15, 16 and 6:3 reads:

    "You must tell the Israelites this, that it is JEHOVAH the God of their forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, who has sent you to them. . . . Go and assemble the elders of Israel and tell them that JEHOVAH the God of their forefathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, has appeared to you." "I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty. But I did not let myself be known to them by my name JEHOVAH." Interestingly, the translators in a footnote make the following observation: "The Hebrew consonants are YHWH, probably pronounced Yahweh, but traditionally read Jehovah."

    Even more to the point is what the noted English Bible scholar J. B. Rotherham has to say on this subject. Especially is this of interest in view of the fact that he might be said to have been one of the pioneers in using the form "Yahweh" in transliterating the Tetragrammaton. His EmphasisedBible was published in 1897, whereas his StudiesinthePsalms were not published until 1911, after he had died. In this latter work Rotherham returned to the use of "Jehovah," which is all the more remarkable in view of how strongly he objected to the form "Jehovah" in the introduction to his EmphasisedBible. In explanation of his reasons for returning to the form "Jehovah," he says in the introduction to his Studies:

    "Jehovah—The employment of this English form of the Memorial name [Exo. 3:18] in the present version of the Psalter does not arise from any misgiving as to the more correct pronunciation, as being Yahweh; but solely from practical evidence personally selected of the desirability of keeping in touch with the public ear and eye in a matter of this kind, in which the principal thing is the easy recognition of the Divine name intended. . . . As the chief evidence of the significance of the name consists not nearly so much in its pronunciation as in the completeness with which it meets all requirements—especially as explaining how the Memorial name was fitted to become such, and to be the preeminent covenant name that it confessedly is, it has been thought desirable to fall back on the form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public."

    Rotherham realized that what was important was not the more accurate pronunciation but the "easy recognition of the Divine name intended," thereby keeping better in touch with the "general Bible-reading public" by means of a name that is "perfectly acceptable" and "meets all requirements" of its uniqueness. In a similar vein S. T. Byington in his Preface to TheBibleinLivingEnglish notes that "the spelling and the pronunciation are not highly important. What is highly important is to keep it clear that this is a personal name. There are several texts that cannot be properly understood if we translate this name by a common noun like ‘Lord.’"

    Those who object to the use of "Jehovah" might be said to "strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!" (Matt. 23:24) How so? In that they make much of the correct pronunciation of God’s name, and yet they seldom if ever use it but prefer to call him "God" or "Lord," which are mere titles, there being many called "lords" and "gods."—1 Cor. 8:5, 6.

    How greatly the Author of the Bible set store by his unique name is apparent from the fact that his Word uses it to refer to himself more often than all other designations put together, for a total of 6,961 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. His concern is also seen in the fact that the expression "they shall know that I am Jehovah" occurs upward of seventy-five times in those writings.

    The name "Jehovah" was chosen by Him with great purpose, for it literally means "He Causes to Become." Jehovah’s distinctive name shows him to be a God of purpose. Whatever he purposes comes to pass.—Isa. 55:11.

    So the witnesses, who claim to have restored the divine name, have deliberately and knowingly chosen to go with the less accurate and more common name: "Jehovah".

    The Jerusalem Bible uses the name 'Yahweh'. So does that mean that the NWT Bible is not only NOT the only Bible that has 'restored the divine name' but they have restored it wrong?

    ***ip-2chap.13p.185par.10"CryOutJoyfullyinUnison"!***

    Moreover, through the publication of the NewWorldTranslation since 1950, Jehovah’s Witnesses have restored the divine name to its proper place in the Bible. Yes, they have come to appreciate Jehovah’s name and are making it known to the ends of the earth.

    Lore

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I had an Ahhhhhhh moment in reading OTWO's response because I also am trying to have an effect on my 9 yr old JW daughter and I try to avoid speaking "like a JW" to her because I don't want her to think I believe JW's are right.....

    I am glad about this thinking. We could really care less about strangers at the door, although
    they deserve the real truth, too. But your own daughter- that's important.

    I have to be careful with active dubs, but I use radical terms with others, to help me mainly,
    but also to help them see the truth of the matter.

    "Literature Distribution" (field service) can actually be called "recruiting."
    "Members" (that's bad enough when they want to be called 'brothers and sister') can be called "rank-and-file members."
    I always refer to "beliefs" as "doctrines" or "current doctrines" so they can remember that they change.
    Here on the forum, I say "baptized" but if it came up with a rank-and-file member, I would say "baptized into the
    Jehovah's Witnesses organization as a fully indoctrinated believer of all of it." Why let them forget what it means?

    You get the drill. I would say to keep radically addressing JW stuff with your daughter. Not in a way to
    shock anyone, but why allow her to use loaded language to prevent real thinking?
    Nobody can really criticize you for saying honest words that mean the same thing. I would suggest
    not correcting her JW terms as she uses them, but changing them when you reply.

    "So Mom, some pioneers wanted me to have a Bible Study."
    "Well dear, they are full-time recruiters. They want some easy time studying Watchtower
    literature with you. I can study the Bible with you if that were the book you actually wanted to learn from."

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I can see using Jehovah with them to keep their attention. But I agree with Worldly Andre that it makes no sense to call him by his 1st name. He is our Father and you don't call your father by his 1st name. It is considered didrespectful. Lord, God are all true and respectful also.

  • memario
    memario

    Well my take on it is it dosen't matter how you call HIM. You know who your talking about. eg. my dog's name is Nequilla. I'll call her Quil or PIE as in key line pie. HERE PIE, COME HERE PIE,...... GOOD GIRL!!!

  • B_Deserter
    B_Deserter

    The name "Jehovah" may not accurately represent the hebrew name of god, but neither do any of the other names in the Bible. Jesus was not the original pronunciation either. In fact, most names that have foreign origins have their pronunciations changed to fit the grammar chracteristics of the language it's being translated to, ergo, John becomes Juan, and Peter becomes Pedro. If you're going to insist on using Yahweh for God's name, then you have to insist on using the correct pronunciation for Jesus, Jehosaphat, Jehoram, and all other Hebrew names in the Bible.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I would probably not have done it but I find it quite interesting, because it offers them an unexpected mirror image of their own "cultish" speak and behaviour. They know they would speak like that between themselves but avoid this kind of talk when addressing a perfect stranger, to sound "normal". Now a stranger addressing them with characteristic "insider talk," while not being an insider, is rather unsettling. And if it sounds "condescending" it also reflects their own condescending attitude in addressing "professed Christians". I guess they will not easily forget your "door".

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    It's your house and THEY knocked on YOUR door. Say what you want, how you want.

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    If you're going to insist on using Yahweh for God's name, then you have to insist on using the correct pronunciation for Jesus, Jehosaphat, Jehoram, and all other Hebrew names in the Bible.

    I don't have to per say, but you're mostly right.

    However, it is a commandment to not take Yahweh's name in vain. And to respect the name of Yahweh. There is no similar command about Jehoram or Jesus/Yeshua.

    Plus when talking to someone who thinks that they are sooo special because they use the name 'Jehovah' in their Bible, I like to go 1up on them by using it correctly.

    If they suddenly started bragging about using the name 'Jesus' then I might switch to 'Yeshua' just to make a point.

    My take is that to sound like I knew what I was talking about, and to lessen the likliness of him turning his ears off right away, I should talk in a way he is comfortable with.

    Using 'Yahweh' would definately accomplish that, it's not a name they come accross often.

    Hubby thinks it is more beneficial to show you are free from their wording and say what you mean from your learning that Jehovah is not GOD's only true name.

    Using 'Yahweh' would do THAT too.

    Lore

  • Arthur
    Arthur

    Using the name Jehovah in front of a JW does raise some subtle questions in their own mind such as: "Could Jehovah be listening to this woman's prayers, too?"

    JWs believe that a failure to use the name Jehovah in prayer falls short, and will not be listened to. Perhaps they think that Jehovah is confused, and thinks that the prayer is being addressed to Zeus or Krishna.

    The name Jehovah is a sort of mystical charm, or mark of spiritual elitism in Watchtower thinking. When I used to interact with householders, their expressions of belieiving in God or praying to God did not impress me. "Every member of Christendom prays to God, or to the Lord" - was my reasoning. However, if anyone should use the name Jehovah or Yahweh, it threw me off.

    On the whole however, I don't really makes a big difference. I agree with Narkisoss; that the most it might accomplish is to create intrigue, and to make that individual Witness remember you.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    What do you all think? What do you say when talking to them if you get the chance?

    I never get a chance.

    The cult leaders announced my DA in at least 4 of the 8 local congregations back in 2004 so that effectively put an end to any opportunities I might have to witness to the JW's about Jesus around here.

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