El vs. YHWH or El into YHWH. for those who've read "The Bible Unearthed"

by kwintestal 43 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • kwintestal
    kwintestal

    I've been thinking about this for quite a while and I'm not exactly sure how the best way of putting it out there, so if it seems like I'm blabbering at points, I more then likely am and I'm sorry. I'm kind of merging two different thoughts together, historical info I got from the book, "the Bible Unearthed" and personal research and discussions with others regarding "el".

    El obviously played an important part in early Hebrew language as it was their word for "god". But, El was a Caananite god, and to them the God of all gods, supreme God father of all things and humankind. Here's the wikipedia entry for El: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28god%29 .

    So if the Jew's word for "god" was "El" wouldn't it make sence that their god prior to YHWH was "El"?

    Now the book "The Bible Unearthed" shows (or tries to show) through archogical evidence that the bible was created by King Josiah and/or Hezikiah and basically the whole bible (prior to Josiah) was a work of fiction, and it does a good job at proving it.

    My thoughts are if the bible was in fact created around the time of Josiah, YHWH beging created at the same time, the language would change around the same time, with the word for God being switched from "el" to variations of "YHWH". Now words that were common wouldn't change, so that's why we have words like "bethel" - house of god, "shekel" - money of god and not "bethyah" or "shekyah".

    So how do we find changes in the language? The only way I could think of is changing of names, to include portions of YHWH. In the bible, there are at least 89 names that include "El" in them with their Hebrew translation and at least 30 that use a variation of YHWH. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophory_in_the_Bible

    I was thinking that a geneologist or language specialist would almost be able to pinpoint a date (and by pinpoint I mean within a few hundred years) as to when they started using YHWH in their names. It would be interesting if the date would coincide with the rule of Josiah.

    Any thoughts on this or other input? Anyone know if this type of study has been done?

    Kwin

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Well, I don't really have a lot of valuable input, but it's an interesting subject you bring up, and likewise the Wikipedia article, although it was missing a lot of citations.

    I haven't read the 'Bible unearthed' book, but the History channel program based on the book can be found on YouTube in several parts. Just search for 'bible unearthed'.

    I thought of Psalms 82:1 (and 6), where both El and Elohim is used. But if I recall correctly, that verse is understood as these gods being human beings; the judges. Can't remember if this is because the rest of people's faith dictates that it couldn't have meant other gods, or if there are some verses that clearly show that they were human judges.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Whereas there is much evidence that El was once regarded in Israel as the supreme god like in Ugaritic mythology (with many similar aspects, such as the bull imagery, or his position as chairman of the assembly of gods), not every single occurrence of 'elohim (which in Biblical Hebrew is the common noun for any god) can be traced back to El worship. In Ugaritic too 'l is a noun applying to any god, not only the name (or title) of El as the Father of gods.

    If Josiah enforced the exclusive worship of his (i.e., Jerusalem's) Yhwh, he certainly did not invent the name. Theophoric personal names including some form of Yhwh, yw or yh, are found as early as the 11th century BC (ywchnn = yochanan), and the Mesha stele in the 8th century BC clearly aknowledges Yhwh as Israel's national god. So what the Bible reflects is a particular development of Yhwh's character (merging El and Baal traits, for instance, in the henotheistic phase of Josiah's reform and subsequent deuteronomism, then making the resulting mix the only "God" with Deutero-Isaiah), rather than the creation ex nihilo of a Yhwh deity.

    Edit: while Beth-El is certainly related to El worship (even though at some point "Bethel" becomes the name of an autonomous deity, cf. Jeremiah 48:13 and the 5th-century BC Elephantine inscriptions), shekel otoh has nothing to do with El or 'l (the letter "l" is part of the root shql, "to weigh," whence a weight and a currency).

  • wherehasmyhairgone
    wherehasmyhairgone

    You might like to pick up a copy of: The Early History of God Yahweh and the other deities in Ancient Israel http://www.amazon.com/Early-History-God-Biblical-Resource/dp/080283972X Goes into a lot more details, and reference. kind regards Steve btw how to i get this to format correctly, none of the 'return breaks' seem to be working?

  • Narkissos
  • Terry
    Terry
    Now the book "The Bible Unearthed" shows (or tries to show) through archogical evidence that the bible was created by King Josiah and/or Hezikiah and basically the whole bible (prior to Josiah) was a work of fiction, and it does a good job at proving it.

    There was a kind of TEMPLATE of ideas which all surrounding nations, tribes, tongues used to retrofit their own embellishments.

    Frequently, it was rooted in Astrology mythology.

    Think of these hero tales and god tales as plot devices over which layers could be added which pertained to your particular tribe or nation.

    The easiest example to point to in history of this is with the Roman Empire.

    The Romans had their very own religion with gods and goddesses who did this and that.

    However, the Roman religion borrowed huge gulps of pre-existing Greek mythology. In many cases just changing the names of the characters and leaving the particulars intact!

    This mythic/religious plagarism was quite common.

    If your tongue cannot pronounce the name of a God or goddess you just give them a name change and make it easier.

    Sampson's exploits in the O.T. mirror Hercules (Hera-cles) for example.

    These religious tales were mostly oral. When they began to be written down they took on a superficial importance.

  • wherehasmyhairgone
    wherehasmyhairgone

    What stood out with me from this book, was the validity given to Baal in Canaan as a legitimate god, the references to a female god as well, and the eventual traits of YHWH, that undeniable encompass the personalities of these other gods. .

    I have ordered the other book mentions Yahweh And the Gods And Goddesses of Canaan , thanks for the link!

    Steve

  • DeusMauzzim
    DeusMauzzim

    Besides the other books suggested, and the excellent reply by Narkissoswho is responsible for my post being so short , I would recommend:

    Smith, Mark S. The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts. Oxford/New York: Oxford University Press, 2001.

    Regards,

    Deus Mauzzim

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Interesting topic and a complex one. But my take from a Biblicalist point of view is that since everyone is descendant from Noah, that it is reasonable that they understood or adapted concepts of the Creator and indeed would have been potential worshipers, or just acknowledge him in the pantheon of these other "gods" who probably can be linked to the principle angels involved.

    Case in point the ancient Sumerians concept of VIRGO, a virgin carrying a branch, representing the "virgin mother" is a clear concept of Satan as portrayed in Eden as "the woman and her seed." The branch represents her family tree or her seed. Thus women holding a seed (like Athena) or Virgo, all Mother Goddesses are directly based upon Satan's idenity in Eden as the woman.

    So if that concept was so clear and fresh in Sumer and they understood who Virgo was and what happened, then I think it's quite possible for them to have had a concept of El and may have paid some perfuntory worship to him.

    Another issue we have to deal with in regard to early worship of YHWH who may have very well been called El just as we say, "God" and everybody knows what/who we're talking about, is MELCHIZEDEK. He was a Canaanite, living at Jerusalem, which apparently was a center of worship of YHWH since he was a king-priest of Yahweh. So is Melchizedek from the time of Abraham was already set up as priest of El/YHWH then we have direct Biblical proof that some of the Canaanites indeed worshipped El and understood who he was.

    Finally, the destruction the Jews did in Canaan was a timed event. Canaan had a certain period of time to remain in charge of their land before the Israelites took over. So it's possible that Canaan had been a center of YHWH worship early on and had become totally corrupted and rebelled and so their destruction was connected with this rebellion against YHWH. And other accounts clearly show the Canaanites knew who EL/YHWH was, even if that concept had become corrupted over time.

    Or take Greek mythology as another example. Those concepts of the one great father-god figure and the angels coming down and marrying beautiful women, many attribute to the angels marrying women before the flood, etc.

    Having noted that, the only true issue here is not whether or not the Canaanites influenced the Jews and their concept of El and YHWH many, many years later, but that the original concepts of the creator, the angels that rebelled, even Satan as handed down by Noah had their own parallel but independent developments.

    Sorry for this astrophic. I wanted to just show the ancient Sumerian concept of VIRGO, a woman holding a branch, representing the "woman and her seed" who represents the Mother Goddess, who is Satan/Lillith is ancient mythology. If they knew precisely who Satan was, I would think they would know just as precisely who El was. At least some of them.

    Here is another form of the "woman and her seed", Satan as the Mother Goddess in the form of Ceres from Pompei. Notice the sheaf of grain.

    alt

    Another of Ceres holding a sheaf.

    alt

    Satan depicted as a woman frquently and consistently in religious art:

    http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/aNePics.html

    So the Canaanites knew generally or precisely (i.e. Melchizedek) who the creator-god was and had specific concepts of Satan/the Mother Goddess as well. So the Canaanites calling the Creator "El" is not inconsistent with Biblical history, but doesn't mean that Abraham or the Jews needed the Canaanites to develop their concept of YHWH, which would have been handed down to them via Noah as much as he handed those concepts and events in Eden down to everybody.

    That's why early on the idea of needing to connect Canaanite religion to YHWH worship fails immediately for "The Bible Unearthed." There's no need for any connection other than the common source through Noah. Further, nobody is saying that there wasn't some YHWH worship going on in Canaan under the name of "El", as long as El had the concept of the great creator-father god figure, which apparently he did. Thus I find Finkelstein's aggressive presumptions about the basis of Jewish worship of YHWH with reference to a foundation in Canaan a bit short-sighted, IMHO. But he's certainly entitled to attempt to make the connection.

    JCanon

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    JC,

    Leaving aside your original yet anachronistic references to "Satan," I'd just point out that Melchizedek in Genesis 14 is not connected with Yhwh but with 'El `elyôn ("God Most High" in many translations), who is regarded as Yhwh's father in the polytheistic synthesis which forms the background of Deuteronomy 32:8ff (on this passage see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/66342/1.ashx).

    His name/title and place may relate him to two other distinct Canaanite deities (equally attested in Ugarit), namely Zedeq (cf. Adoni-zedeq as another king of Jerusalem in Joshua 10, and possibly Zadoq as the eponym ancestor of the Jerusalem priesthood) and Shalem (Jerusalem = "city / foundation of Shalem"). It seems that the introduction of Yhwh worship in Jerusalem is quite late (as the divergent Biblical traditions about the city as "Jebusite" down to Joshua or David's times also confirm indirectly).

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