Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty 59 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  JCanon

  Thanks so much for this reference.

  The WTS uses this reference specifically to confirm the ancient historical reference to a global flood in various cultures, suggesting many ancient cultures had a common flood story in their history and are thus referring to the global flood of Noah's day. The chronology of the flood versus the chronology of the Gilgamesh tablets is totally up for grabs though. The obvious presumption is that it follows the actual flood. Those obviously dating it before the flood would be questioned.

  From the WTS from Mankind's Search For God, chapter 3:

  The

  FloodandtheGod-ManGilgamesh

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  Going back in history possibly some 4,000 years, we encounter the famous Akkadian myth called the Epic of Gilgamesh. Our knowledge of this is based mainly on a cuneiform text that came from the library of Ashurbanipal, who reigned 668-627 B.C.E., in ancient Nineveh.

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  It is the story of the exploits of Gilgamesh, described as being two-thirds god and one-third man, or a demigod. One version of the epic states: "In Uruk he built walls, a great rampart, and the temple of blessed Eanna for the god of the firmament Anu, and for Ishtar the goddess of love . . . , our lady of love and war." (See box, page 45, for a listing of Assyro-Babylonian gods and goddesses.) However, Gilgamesh was not exactly a pleasant creature to have around. The inhabitants of Uruk complained to the gods: "His lust leaves no virgin to her lover, neither the warrior’s daughter nor the wife of the noble."

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  What action did the gods take in response to the people’s protest? The goddess Aruru created Enkidu to be the human rival of Gilgamesh. However, instead of being enemies, they became close friends. In the course of the epic, Enkidu died. Shattered, Gilgamesh cried: "When I die, shall I not be like Enkidu? Woe has entered my belly. Fearing death, I roam over the steppe." He wanted the secret of immortality and set out to find Utnapishtim, the deluge survivor who had been given immortality with the gods.

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  Gilgamesh eventually finds Utnapishtim, who tells him the story of the flood. As found in Epic tablet XI, known as the Flood Tablet, Utnapishtim recounts instructions given to him concerning the flood: "Tear down (this) house, build a ship! Give up possessions, seek thou life. . . . Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things." Does this not sound somewhat similar to the Bible’s reference to Noah and the Flood? But Utnapishtim cannot bestow immortality upon Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh, disappointed, returns home to Uruk. The account concludes with his death. The overall message of the epic is the sadness and frustration of death and the hereafter. Those ancient people did not find the God of truth and hope. However, the epic’s link to the Bible’s simple account of the pre-Flood era is quite evident. Now let us turn to the Flood account as it appears in other legends.

  JCanon
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  Leolaia

  There is additional evidence that the Hebrews were influenced by the Gilgamesh Epic. A Bronze Age copy of the Gilgamesh Epic was discovered at Megiddo (i.e. it was known to the Canaanites), whereas the Jewish Book of Giants in the Dead Sea Scrolls mentions Gilgamesh and possibly Utnapishtim (= Atambish), proving that memory of characters in the Gilgamesh Epic continued for centuries afterward in Jewish circles.
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  Leolaia

  but how do you know the gilgamesh epos was written BEFORE the bible flood? in my languages wikipedia it says the epos is from 1200 BC which is at least 1000 years AFTER the flood. it could be just a altered version of the original flood from the bible...

  No, first of all, 1200 BC is when the standard Assyrian version was redacted; the Old Babylonian version goes back to 1800-1600 BC. And this version, in turn, incorporates the much older Sumerian flood story which goes back to 2150-2000 BC (see the same Wikipedia page). Second, this more original version of the story gives the Flood hero's name as Ziusudra (cf. Xisuthros in Berossus), of which Utnapishtim is an Akkadian translation (both allude to the individual's post-Flood immortality). What is significant about this is that the Sumerian King List names Ziusudra as the last antediluvian king before the Flood (intervening between the first kingships and the Early Dynastic Period with the first dynasties of Ur, Kish, Uruk, etc.), and Ziusudra was the king of Shuruppak. As it turns out, there really was a catastrophic flood at just this time (around 2900 BC) at Shuruppak as archaeological digs have discovered at modern Fara. This flood intervenes between the pre-Dynastic Jemdet Nasr period and the Early Dynastic Period, just as the Sumerian King List implies. So this is imho a persuasive piece of evidence that the Mesopotamian version is the more original one.
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  JCanon

  There is additional evidence that the Hebrews were influenced by the Gilgamesh Epic. A Bronze Age copy of the Gilgamesh Epic was discovered at Megiddo (i.e. it was known to the Canaanites), whereas the Jewish Book of Giants in the Dead Sea Scrolls mentions Gilgamesh and possibly Utnapishtim (= Atambish), proving that memory of characters in the Gilgamesh Epic continued for centuries afterward in Jewish circles.

  This proves no such thing. Gilgamesh is not mentioned in the Bible and the Jews are well known to have referenced many other sources. It doesn't prove this was part of their official history.

  Bottom line is that the Flood happened and that historical story told by Noah and his sons was passed on to many cultures who adapted that story. The Jews have their own, but more accurate version of that story. Gilgamesh came obviously after the Flood, regardless of how erroneously archaeologists seem to want to date him. I'm amazed at a woman as intelligent as you are buy into so much of this propaganda that is so easily dismissible or nonprovable; though, obviously, the same could be said for the Bible fundamentalists, especially with issues like a global flood.

  JCanon

  P,S. Was that short enough for you?
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  freeme

  ty leo! :-)
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  JCanon

  but how do you know the gilgamesh epos was written BEFORE the bible flood? in my languages wikipedia it says the epos is from 1200 BC which is at least 1000 years AFTER the flood. it could be just a altered version of the original flood from the bible...

  Archaeologists can only guestimate and use these records to make presumptions, many of which claim thousands of years in the past as true history which is dismissed. So though some of this might be dated past where the Bible would date the Flood, it matters not since the Bible is its own historical record with its own timeline. Thus the contradiction by the Bible's timeline alone would be sufficient to dismiss any contradicting chronology if you consider the Bible as a more reliable timeline and historical source. If you want to side with the archaeologists, not all of whom agree on ancient chronology, then that's your choice. So at this point it simply needs to be established that there's a contradiction. Some things like these can never be proven either way. But archaeologists simply guessing about the timeline isn't sufficient to dismiss the Bible's timeline. Absolute dating only comes from good astronomical text references or great samples for RC14 dating. If none of those are associated with Gilgamesh then there is little to effectively contradict the Bible's timeline. The Bible is the only historical source you can take for face value along with any others that would harmonize with it. Otherwise, you can feel secure in rejecting it if it contradicts the Bible's timeline. But that, of course, is up to you and likely based upon how much research you've done.

  JCanon
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  Tired of it all

  If anyone is looking for something that proves the that a global flood took place their is a three part series called the Origin of Variety it is a google video and is about six hours long, but he cleary shows that the only way we have the world as we know it is because of the flood. The Origin of Variety.gvi
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  wherehasmyhairgone

  The Bible is the only historical source you can take for face value along with any others that would harmonize with it.

  Whenever the source material has an agenda I always suspect its claims and motives. The story of the flood ,if you wish to take even the bibles own chronology was not written by Noah, so it certainly was not written down around the claimed 2300BCE, now even if you take general claims that moses wrote the first 5 books ( which again is so full of holes) the entire first 5 books is written as history not as current events, would place the writing ( according to 1272BCE) as claims that moses received this, or later. Which places that around the same time as the as the Assyrian one according to leolaia.

  So there is no reason to accept the flood in Genesis ( of whihc there is 2 versions) is an original unless you activate the faith card, which is of course belief without evidence and more importantly belief against the evidence. Of course you have extended problem for those that claim the genesis flood was meant to be a local flood with Gen 7: 17-20 where every mountain top was covered by fifteen cubits. So the get out of jail for free card on the claims that genesis was a local flood is damaged by this statement.

  http://hebrew.scripturetext.com/genesis/7-17.htm this the Hebrew word used for earth here.

  If anyone is looking for something that proves the that a global flood took place their is a three part series called the Origin of Variety it is a google video and is about six hours long, but he cleary shows that the only way we have the world as we know it is because of the flood. The Origin of Variety.gvi

  There is good science and bad science, and this video is BAD science, he comments about evolutionary beginning was full of errors, and claimed bigger explanations that any evolutionist would claim.( that was 11 mins in!) His probability example showed his complete lack of understanding of probability and was a a joke, but seemed to feed his ignorant audience.

  The flood on a global scale was impossible and Animal life would have collapsed under the range of species we see today if we base the Noah idea of taking 2 of every kind. That the beauty of DNA, the evidence is there.
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  Open mind

  I've got some pre-flood "magic beans" that I'm selling on E-Bay if anyone's interested. ;-)
  
  FWIW, I'm currently listening to a series of lectures on World Literature from the Teaching Company. (That's the ex-JW equivalent of reading the Awake to get your degree ;-) ) Oh well, it's what I can do right now, with the cards in my hand.
  
  Anyway, this professor first discussed Gilgamesh and then moved on to the Bible. It's her opinion that we can't be sure which came first. She says that the oldest written Gilgamesh texts are older than the Hebrew writings but that the oral tradition may have started with the Hebrews first, and that the Sumerians were just the first to put it in writing. She made it clear, though, that she's just speculating on that idea.
  
  I thought the most interesting point is that the "standard version" of the Gilgamesh epic we have today, was never written as we now see it. It's a "reasonable" compilation of many source texts spanning centuries.
  
  *Open Mind packs up his Audio Book degree and walks out*
  
  I'd insert an "embarrassed" emoticon here if Firefox would let me. Sigh.
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  nvrgnbk

  I wish the Lord God Almighty would help make this less confusing.

  I guess He's too busy deciding what the JW literature campaign will be this winter.