how would a dub respond?

bigdreaux

as i stated in a previous post, i often think differently. now, i don't know if this has been discussed before, but, with reguard to 1914. let's pretend this prophecy is true. let's pretend that satan was hurled out of heaven in 1914, and came to earth. the problem i see is, if we knew about the prophecy, certainly, satan knew about it. he also knew that, if he started a world war, he would fulfill the prophecy and do god a favor. if he did nothing, 1914 would pass as another year, and prove the prophecy false, turning the would be witnesses away from his org. how would a dub respond to this? does this make sense to anyone?

changeling

He'd say you were using circular reasoning. lol

changeling

bigdreaux

nah, they are so dumb, they don't even know what that is, even though they do it on a daily basis.

Siamsa

There is no truthful answer that an official organisation information disseminator could truthfully give that would support the position of the organisation concerned. The difficulty with your argument is that many other dates came and passed prior to 1914. Nothing of note happened on these prior dates. despite the best efforts of the organisation/business. One would have to trawl through many old peoples homes at this stage to find those who witnessed 1914 before they pass away.

One more prophecy that failed.

It was proposed at one stage to move 1914 to 1957 to keep the failure alive. Even the Gullible Body could not swallow that one. If one keeps shifting the goalposts eventually the ball will hit the target. Dont forget that the world renowned spiritualist and follower of pyramid power C.T. Russell based his predictions on the egyptian pyramids. His gravestone was a pyramid with a good old cross enscribed thereon. How the times have changed with all the light that now shines on this murky corner of N.Y.

OnTheWayOut

Okay, I got this one.

Being cast out of heaven really enraged Satan. As much as he didn't want to fulfill
his role in prophecy, he can't help it. In such an enraged condition, and knowing that
Jehovah will ultimately destroy him, Satan decided to take as many humans as
possible with him. Starting and expanding World War causes so many people to
deeply embed their racist hatred and patriotism, that they would not want to
learn of racial harmony and the removal of human governments.

Since being cast from heaven, the demons are kept in spiritual darkness. They aren't
in the presence of Jehovah and they aren't allowed to materialize. This condition causes
a type of mental-illness or craziness in them, and they can't think straight, so everything
they think is good to win their war with Jehovah just further fulfills prophecy. Jehovah
foresaw this, and that's why his representatives on earth are always right.

Scarey, isn't it- how I (and others) can think that way?

bigdreaux

on the way out, that's what i was looking for. thanks.

what if i counter that satan is sly, and the great deceiver? surely he could find a way around it?

drew sagan

My guess I JW really wouldn't care about the details. They could say 'God knew what Satan would do but Satan didn't know'.

I'm not kidding on this. I think Rutherford actually stated that the 'Bible Students' where being watched by Satan but that God protected them or something to that effect. There was lots of crazy stuff said about this topic. Got to do some diggin to find the info.

bigdreaux

thanks drew, but, that gives way to predestination, and robs us of free will, even satan, if god knew he'd do it, beforehand, that would mean, he had no control over it, as god was responsible. right?

Stealth453

Like this.......

drew sagan

but, that gives way to predestination, and robs us of free will, even satan, if god knew he'd do it, beforehand, that would mean, he had no control over it, as god was responsible. right?

Not really. Believing that God knew what Satan would do and then revealed prophecy about it is totally in line with what the WTS teaches.

Remember that the Watchtower teaches about a God who doesn't know all things. In their thinking God chooses to know certain things and then fits his plan around what he has looked into the future to see. This is probably the stupidest teaching they have because when you start to break it down it makes no sense.

They use the illustration of a room with many doors. God can choose to open the door and see the future if he wants to. Now forget the logic about the fact that if God isn't on the other side of that door then there are places that God is not and thus there might be things that are actually bigger than god (???).

But that aside, if God chooses what he wants to know what happens when it isn't what he wants? He opens the door and then sees what will happen and goes 'well, looks like we better find a good way around that one'.

By saying that God doesn't know everything they put a border around him. His is only some things, not all things in this model.

how would a dub respond?

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