Coming to terms with your death - immortality options

by Crumpet 35 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    This probably sounds stupid, but I didn't fully realize I am mortal until I was 22 or so. I mean - of course I knew I would die one day, and even that I could die any day. If you had asked me at age 18, I would have said as much. But something changed around the age of 22. Nothing special happened in my life at the time - I was still an active JW and had eternity in front of me - but for some reason I suddenly knew that I was mortal in a totally new way. I can't describe it. From then on I 'felt' my beating heart, knowing it could stop at any moment, and it got to me for a while.

    When I started fading, this hit me even harder, because now my whole outlook on life, the lie that I had been living was vanishing. No eternal life after all. I'm amazed at how calm I've remained through it though. I must confess - I'm weird. I haven't had any of the "wild lifestyle" that most people go through and as you describe. I may have wanted to, but it just hasn't been my personality. I've been scared, I think. Scared of the world, scared of other people. Scared of doing something that I couldn't fully control, perhaps (drink a lot, do drugs, do high risk sports etc.). So I've pretty much "stayed in place".

    But I have done a lot of thinking. And it has led me to a rather bleak outlook on life. I am now an atheist. I believe now that when I die, that's it.

    This was my chance; I already won the lottery, and the prize was life. I had been promised something more, but it isn't there. I was promised there would be cookies in the kitchen cabinet if I behaved, but the bottom of the cabinet fell out and it's empty. I can cry about it "Give me my cookies!!", I can be in denial "What!? No cookies!?", I can bargain about it "Please! I'll do anything - just tell me there are cookies!" - - - but no matter what I do, the cabinet is just as empty. Doesn't matter how unfair it may be.

    And I started thinking of in what capacity I could "live on" after I die, like you describe Crumpet. Well - I'm artistic. My drawings and paintings could perhaps live on after I'm dead? And ideally, affect other people's emotions? That would be a nice legacy. Having said that, I thought of the most famous people through history; Mozart, Michaelangelo, Da Vinci, Einstein, Elvis...! Etc. All dead. And although they did a lot of good for the generations to come, they're just as dead. The fact that I know their names and look at or listen to their art don't help them any. So what's the point? No matter what I do in life, chances are I'm totally forgotten within a thousand years, even if I'm really successful in what I do. And if you wait long enough, the Sun will burn out and even if mankind flees, the universe will eventually dissipate and all human life will have expired.

    Human (and animal) life still has great value though. The fact that we are so rare and so few in the universe, gives us value just like the small number of diamonds give them 'value'. Human emotions - the fact that we can contemplate our surroundings and our lives and care about fellow humans makes us so special that we do have great value. Music can make me cry, make me laugh, make me angry - even without any accompanying pictures. Paintings can tell a story, or have different meaning to different people. The fact that we are fragile gives us value. "Handle with care".

    Now - I know this kind of thinking is a gold mine for any theist reading it. "Poor atheist schmuck! How can life have any value or meaning, without God? If he would just repent, he could live forever! You can see by what he's writing, just how depressing atheism is!"

    In a way they would be right. It is a depressing thought. I mean, I can have some hope that perhaps somehow there is actually life after death. That some deity of some sort actually exists. But if so, it's not something I could know anything about (the agnostic approach).

    "Just read the Bible!" they would say. Or "Just read the Hindu Vedas!" others would say. Or "Just read the Q'uran!" someone else would say. Or perhaps "Just look around you at the complexity of life and the universe!" even others would say.

    I've done all that. No epiphany, other than that the books are inconsistent and bear the markings of man, not God, and that natural explanations can be found to most things in nature, including advanced life.

    So.... One has to reach a conclusion. And I've concluded that I actually will try to make my art available to people after all. I will try to do the best I can and get the most out of this life - simply because that's the best I can do. If I at some point have children of my own, that would be great as well. You can't live life thinking billions of years ahead anyway. And why would you. People are alive today, they have feelings and needs today, and if I can help them in any way, that's what I should be doing with my life.

    If there is a deity out there capable of granting me eternal life, I won't be afraid of meeting him/her/it/they and stare him/her/it/they right in the face. Because I haven't done anything that would warrant losing my life. And if he/she/it/they feel that I have, then so be it. Then we disagree, but I won't have the power to overturn the decision, and wouldn't want to live an eternal life under such a**hole(s) anyway.

    Theists often say "But how can you be moral if you're an atheist?" "How can life have any meaning without God?" "How can life have any value without God?" Well - - if you need a God to be moral and find meaning and value in life, or if you think morals are a good thing simply because God said so.... How much value does a human life have in the Old Testament? People are killed left and right for the smallest infraction. People's lives are taken from them. It sounds corny I know, but "life is all we have". Taking the life from someone is the absolute worst punishment you can give them. JWs are 'proud' not to believe in a fiery Hell, but God really isn't that much better because he "only" kills people.

    "But he created life, so he can take it away - he has that right!" He may have the right, but would it be the right thing to do? A loving father doesn't kill his child if it does something wrong. He may discipline the child, but obviously does not kill it. Why does Jehovah have to kill people? Couldn't he discipline them - not in an eternal fire; then he would be even worse - but come down and tell the person it was wrong and why it was wrong? "Well - the Bible is his word, and it tells us how to live". That's nice - if I could believe the Bible was His word.

    - Let's say we went back in time and brought back the great painters and sculptors of human history, like Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Rodin, Van Gogh, etc. It turned out that a lot of them weren't happy with the paintings and statues they had made. And so they suddenly started smashing them to pieces. Paintings and statues that mean and has meant a lot to a lot of people and brought forth a lot of emotions through history - destroyed. Paintings and statues that could be said to be invaluable; priceless. Wouldn't it be their right to do so? After all, they were the creators of these works. Yes - they would have the right. But would it be right? The right thing to do? I think most people would agree that it would be a tragedy, and a horrible thing to do, even if they were the ones who made them. So if we can value art like that - - how would we value each individual human life? OK for God to destroy them because he gave humans life?

    Anyway - I don't believe in God, and wouldn't want such a God if He existed. That doesn't mean I "hate God" - it means I don't believe in any. But am I opposed to the idea? No. If God suddenly turned out to exist and presented himself/herself/itself/themselves in a presentable manner and in a manner which made it impossible not to believe, I would of course believe. Or rather - I would know.

    That's another thing - we're not supposed to know - - we're supposed to believe without seeing. That's the whole secret right there, isn't it? I just don't get the point of that.

    Oh well - this post became HUGE by my standards already, and few will bother reading it or agree with me, so I'll stop here.

    What was I trying to say? Oh yeah - despite it all, human life DOES have value, we CAN do a lot of good to others while we DO live, and life is precious. If another life awaits, it'll be an unexpected bonus.

  • Open mind
    Open mind
    and few will bother reading it or agree with me

    I did. And I do.

    Open Mind

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    bttt

    Busy day today. Barbara Anderson and all.

    Hate to see Nina get unintentionally buried.

    Open Mind

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Is that what lies at the bottom of the problem, the fear of death?

    For the atheists there is no other outcome except a temporary existence followed by eternal non existence not a nice prospect but what can we do they say, better be realistic and accept this pessimistic outcome rather than dream of the myth of a soul and eternal life.

    For the Christian there is the resurrection so death is not eternal.

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    Hi Crumpet,

    since coming out of the JW morass, one of my favorite mottos is the definition for serendipity: part of the pleasure of looking for treasure is the wonderful things you find along the way.

    I like that idea - so I try to have goals, but as I make my way toward those goals, all sorts of interesting stuff pops up, some of it is treasure. Some of it is crap, of course, but the treasure part is quite nice.

    If I'm really down I try to go about my business, but along the way I try to find some treasure, something to read, something to look at, even some little doodad at a junk store, a funny slogan, a cool bumper sticker, some really tasty gossip, a new idea, or I drive down a new street.

    I'm a lot older than you are, I believe, and where I once would have tried poetry I now try staring through green leaves at deep blue sky.

    your friend, Hortensia (of the I'm going to my first apostafest la la la class)

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    as for death, years ago I read the autobiography of W. H. Hudson, who was an Englishman transplanted to the Argentine pampas in the late 1800s with his family. He wrote Green Mansions, which people mostly don't read any more, but some have seen the movie with Audry Hepburn.

    Anyway, in his autobiography, he said he saw a dead animal when he was young - and he realized in that moment what death meant, and he said he spent every day of the rest of his long life terrified of death. The fear of death ruined his life. That spoke to me, as I was very afraid of death, and I could see it was ruining my life too. I finally came to accept that there's nothing we can do about it, so we ought to try to enjoy what we have. We just plain don't know what there may be after death, if anything. But life can be grand, although I have to admit that parts of it really suck.

  • sinis
    sinis

    Death? Ha, Gods never die...

  • What-A-Coincidence
  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Nina -

    I have not had time to fully taste and digest the aroma and splendor of your words, but the opening scene was filled with sensory emotion and tangible poetic style to me. You are able to fondle words into pleasure for the cortex. I shall return to this thread and more carefully chew this morsel, but until then, know that it was appreciated that you shared it with us mere mortals.

    Jeff

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Wow Jeff!!

    Between you and Nina, what can I say?

    I am in the presence of greatness.

    Think I'll stop before I screw it up.

    Open Mind

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