Taliban - Resistence is FUTILE !

by Amazing 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Amazing

  Hi SevenOfNine: Yes, I read the repot you provided. Thanks. It is similar to other information I have read. The situation in that part of the world is a tangled web.

  My purpose in posting the US Military Propaganda quoted on CNN was how unique it sounds, like something out of Star Trek. But, in all this, while I make no specific judgments of what can or will happen, I do believe that US military capability is greatly miunderstood and underestimated.

  The British lost because, like they did with the USA during the revolutionary war, they lacked committment, and were spread too far and thin to be able to do the job that needed to be done.

  The Soviets lost, more because they finally gave up. Part of the problem was committment. But also part of the problem is that they, as a "super power" were still not very advanced compared to the west. Soviet Mig jet fighters are still using 1950s and 1960s technology. Another reason they lost is that they made the same error the USA made in Viet Nam. They were fighting a super power who merely supplied behind the scenes, but the locals did the actual fighting. Finally, the biggest reason is that the Soviet Union was already in trouble politically and economically, and it was just three years after they left Afghanistan that they collapsed.

  The USA is in a different position this time. We have no super power supplying the Taliban behind the scenes. We are committed, focused and determined to win. We have isolated the Taliban, and surrounded them with cooperation from other Islamic states in the region, even though some are a tenuous relationship - but even Iran finally offered us support. We have pulled world suport together behind us, and so parallel efforts in other nations, such as seizing financial assets, arresting terrorists cells, and other support have suddenly made life very difficult for the Taliban and Al Qaeda - bin Laden.

  Oh, they are trying to mess with us by sending Anthrax to media people and key politicians - and they thiink that Americans will get demoralized. But far from it. As I said above, they grossly misunderstand and grossly underestimate our unity of resolve, our own willingness to die fighting them, and our vast ability to overwhelm and over power them.

  Already the Taliban are fractured, some surrendering, some infighting, and some running. These are criminal cowards who train young men in cult mentality to do their bidding. But they are too coward to fight like men. No, they hide in Mosques with civilians and women and children to avoid being bombed. Just like a criminal who holds hostages in a bank hold up, and hides behind innocent people to avoid being shot.

  Thay can run, but not forever. They can hide, but will evetually get caught. They forget that we will never tire until we catch them and bring them to justice.

  Just today ten of their commrades were sentanced to life in prison for the Kenya and Sudan EMbassy bombings. Yes, in their case, I will forgo my desire for the death penalty, because this could more likely make them maryters. Rather, I think being in a jail cell with a 300 pound mate named Bubba who calls them sweety - yes, American inmates will give them a real party. Amazing
• 

  Jigrigger

  Hi Kent,

  I hear you!

  What's MORE interesting just now is when the Middle-East explodes. The idiots in Israel will make the Middle-East the problem the US fears most - I'm pretty certain about that. And what then?

  The need of two new "small nuclear bombs" placed in Israel seems to be a solution, and you seem to accept those weapons as acceptable...

  One thing that really amazes me is how the western world - particularly North America and the Brits - refuse to admit at least publicly the connection between Sept. 11 and the Arab-Isreali conflict.

  From the first few hours following the attacks on NYC and the Pentagon, the whole thing was characterized as an attack on our freedom, way of life, etc. BULLSHIT!!!

  No one wants to admit - the Israelis especially - that supporting Israeli actions and policy regarding the Palestinians is the main REASON that these horrible attacks took place. The U.S. led coalition can bomb the crap out of Afghanistan or any other country for the next hundred years, but if they keep supporting Israel in their battles against the Palestinians, the terrorist activities against western nations and their interests will not cease.

  WAKE UP AMERICA!!! Your friendship with Israel is really starting to cost you. Let them fight their own battles. Do you really think that if the shoe was on the other foot that Israel would be helping out the Americans? They'd say SORRY, we're not going to put ourselves in great peril by involving OURSELVES in YOUR struggles...

  Jrig
• 

  Cassiline

  TO Jrig.................

  Canada's direct interest in the Middle East during the first part of 1956 was largely confined to the export of Canadian arms to this volatile region. As the documentation in the first chapter suggests, Canada worked hard to keep its military exports to Israel and the Arab countries in approximate balance, unwilling to assume a leading role as a regional arms supplier. This became much harder in April 1956, when Dulles asked Pearson to supply Israel with jet fighters in order to offset increased Soviet aid to Egypt. (Document 33) Pearson was sympathetic, but unwilling to act except as part of a collective Western decision to provide Israel with defensive weapons. (Documents 47-48) Working out this policy with the Western allies proved exceptionally complicated, and became even more so when Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser abruptly nationalized the Suez Canal in July 1956.

  http://www.canschool.org/dcer/1956/introduction-e.asp

  Financial backing from Canada to Israel is also available from any search engine.

  C

  When the pain of being where we are, becomes greater than our fear of letting go...we will risk and heal and grow.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Kent and Jigrigger,

  You both need to go educate yourselves on the issues in Israel before mouthing off. Jig, first, Bin Ladin could give a rats ass about the Palestinians, and that goes for the rest of the Arabs too. They really don't care. If the Arabs cared about the so called Palestinians they would have allowed them to assimilate into the countries of Lebenon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, and Iraq. Instead they forced them to stay in squalid Refugee camps.

  Jig since when does one give up a friendship because it costs us, even dearly. True friendship, by it's very nature, is loyal. The Israelis are deserving of our loyalty, our friendship, and our support. The Israelis are fighting for their very existence. For 2000 years the Jews have been chased from one country to another, persecuted, murdered, harrassed, more than once in history people have attempted to completely irradicate Jews from the face of the earth. The Jews as a people could not feel secure until they had a homeland. This homeland was carved from part of their traditional homeland where, despite what Arab propoganda would have you beleive, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence.

  Why not blame the so called Palestinians for calling for the irradication of the State of Israel; why not blame them for the constant suicide bombing in Israel; why not blame them for glorifying terror and suicide bombing by showing cartoons to children that glorify this.

  Yes, Israel has made mistakes and at times been heavy handed, but they are fighting for their very survival as a nation and as a people.

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  drahcir yarrum

  Well said Yerusalem! These radical Arab terrorists hate us because they view us as the antithesis of Islam. Their fervor is based in bastardized concepts of the Koran. Capitalism and wealth are the impetus to enlightenment and this is counter to the intellectual enslavement desired by these nutbag Mullahs. Our support of Israel is simply a convenient facade for their despicable actions. The women in this country and other civilized European countries arn't treated like livestock. Our children aren't living in caves with no formal education and minimal food.
• 

  Julie

  Greetings to all:

  America is generally viewed as Christian--even though we have so many religions. All of the religions here besides the Muslims are considered Infidels. Israel, (the Jewish state, more Infidels), is seen as the oppresser of Palestine, a Muslim state (or actually trying to BE a state). America and some of her allies are supporters of Israel. All are consider Infidels. All are hated by the Islamic extremists. It is not such a stretch to believe that indeed the relationships in this whole situation do influence the actions of these extremists groups.

  Regarding the US propaganda, while it seems almost surreal to us we have to remember that these people have a different mindset than we do. Such things being drummed into their heads repeated will likely result in fueling the fires that are inspiring the defections etc. that are already happening. Like Hussein's Republican Guard that was going to present us with the Mother of All Battles. Turned out they readily surrendered to reporters and photographers (i.e. unarmed foreigners). Propaganda is still a good weapon in the middle east, and the better prepared one is to back up their own proganda, the better. Ours may be part bluster, theirs is ALL bluster.

  Just my two cents--
  Julie
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  There have already been reports of Taliban soldiers switching sides to fight with the Northern Alliance.

  Loyalty in these countries is quite fluid. Many of the rank and file soldiers will go with whatever side appears to be winning....Taliban or Northern Alliance.....doesn't matter to them.

  The actual Taliban itself, however, is a different matter, and I doubt that any of the leaders will surrender. However, if most of their troops can be coerced to leave the Taliban army, that leaves the governing officials and the military officers, which is hardly an effective fighting force.

  Surrender will probably not be an option, but they will most likely choose to martyr themselves for their "cause" rather than cede power.
• 

  Jigrigger

  Yerusalim,

  You both need to go educate yourselves on the issues in Israel before mouthing off.

  
  Typical...
  Anyone who disagrees with the Israelis needs to "educate" themselves.
  I've gotten all the "education" I can stand from the Jewish controlled media. I'd rather draw my own conclusions, thank you.
  

  The Israelis are fighting for their very existence.

  
  So are the Palestinians. Do you believe that the Palestinians are less entitled to a homeland than the Jews?

  This homeland was carved from part of their traditional homeland where, despite what Arab propoganda would have you beleive, there has ALWAYS been a Jewish presence.

  
  I don't understand why you'd think I don't know that there has always been a Jewish presence. So what? There has always been an Arab presence also. Moot point...

  Why not blame the so called Palestinians for calling for the irradication of the State of Israel; why not blame them for the constant suicide bombing in Israel

  
  If I were a Palestinian I would be totally pissed at the Jews myself.
  Have you ever heard the term "Bad faith bargaining"?
  Suppose, by way of illustration, we are neighboring ranchers. Our land has been in our respective families' possession for generations. But for one reason or another, a formal boundry between our properties had never been established. This has been a source of conflict between our families since the time our forefathers first settled here. So we enter into negotiations that we hope will establish once and for all a definite, legal boundry line. But, while the negotiations are ongoing, I continue to expand, putting buildings up, fencing off pasture, etc., increasing MY acreage and decreasing YOURS. Would that not make any negotiations between us meaningless?

  That's how I view the Arab-Israeli conflict. While "peace talks" have been going on and off for years, Israelis have continued to expand their settlements, despite repeated resolutions by the UN year after year to stop the expansion.

  That's how I see it.

  Jrig
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  The British under SAS Commander Captain William Cunningham and Moshe Dayan helped establish the Israeli Defense Force - IDF and helped european Jews expatriate themselves after the war and settle into modern day Israel.

  Thus the contentions began. Since the division and partitioning of Palestine and the creation of the modern Jewish state, the Arabs have been in continual opposition. The opposition has not always manifested itself agressively, and at times has been diplomatic and political in nature.

  However, the main point is that as long as the state of Israel exists in a political sense, the Arabs and Palestinians will always object to their presence.

  Someone here made a perceptive comment about the unwillingness of any Arab "neighbor" in the region to extend their borders and all types of humanitarian and economic support to the palestinians. Who is setting up tents in Gaza or the West Bank or Hebron?

  Who is providing mobile medical care? Who is providing food and temporary shelter? Is any of this sponsored by Arabs or Fundamentalist Islamics? The answer is an obvious NO. The palestinian displacement problem is also a convenient tool used for diplomatic hammering at the US, Israel and the UN & UK. The palestinians are simply scapegoats and pawns in an international game of chess about oil, terrorism, and money. The players are stubborn and greedy.

  Yasser Arafat is egyptian and yet he has not made strides in his homeland to "adopt" the palestinians or even to assist them economically. Their neighbors will provide weapons and training but not food, medicine and shelter. What does that tell you?

  I have always said, the safest and FASTEST way to immediately resolve the problem in the region is for the UN to OCCUPY THE ENTIRE CITY OF JERUSALEM! Once occupied, declare it an "international city" such as the Vatican or Andorra or San Marino or Monaco.

  Secondly, all religious sites should be closed and reopened as Museums with supervised tourism. All visitors to Jerusalem should be required to obtain valid passports and visas from the UN before gaining entrance. Once this holy city cannot be used for religious and political leverage, the focus must change to the real problems; i.e. poverty, relocation of palestinians, refugees, etc..

  As long as a religious issue exists, progress cannot be made. Just look at Northern Ireland, Macedonia, Bosnia, Serbia, Rwanda,etc..
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Jig,

  Taking you to task once again. You said the Palestinians are also fighting for their very existence. WHO is trying to irradicate them? Who has ever tried to eliminate the so called "Palestinians" as a race? The answer is NO ONE!
  Here's a challenge, define "Palestinian" Before WW1 the term really wasn't used for people in the region, they were all Arabs.
  Lebenon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq were all considered part of "greater Palestine" before WWI.
  Why doesn't anyone call Israelis of Arab descent Palestinians?
  Since when is the Media Pro Israeli, apparently you don't watch CNN.

  I do agree that the Palestinians should have a homeland, they could have been Israelis had they wanted. More "Palestinians" were forced to leave Israel by Arabs than by Jews.

  Have I ever heard of bad faith bargaining? Yes, I have, and the Palestinians are great at it. They've more documented violations of Oslo than do the Israelis. Arafat has emptied his jails of known terrorists more than once.

  The Palestinians had a chance at a homeland that included an internationalized Jerusalem back in 1948 and rejected it because they wanted the whole pie.
  Try this ananolgy on for size sizzle chest.
  Some bargaining power finally comes to divide our disputed property, while I don't like the boundaries I decide to accept them. The day the agreement is official, you and your neighbors attack me, meaning to take the whole enchilada. I FIGHT BACK. To secure my boundaries against this aggression I have to take some of the disputed land because it is strategically located just to prevent you from coming and killing my family. Even then you continue to bomb the school house, and kill my children. Even though you were beat fair and square in a war that YOU started with a superior military force. Yet when the news media comes to cover the news of the battle, it tells of how I'm shooting your teenagers who are throwing rocks at me (they hve me WAY outnumbered, the rocks hurt and can KILL, the news media fails to report that you are using woman and children to shield your aggression, firing at me from schools hospitals and residential areas. Yet they never report the number of times you've bombed my school house, etc. The ranchers that helped you attack me, now won't take you in or assist you in anyway.

  The water source between our two ranches is in dispute. In the first war you win the water hole (Jerusalem) and you won't let me have any water. When in a second war started by YOUR AGGRESSION I take control of the water hole, I still give you not only access, but day to day control of a large part of the water source. Still, rather than try to live in peace you keep preaching NOT coexistence, but rather the entire elimination of my ranch, which I've turned into a pretty valuable place.

  Even after you've agreed to stop calling for my irradication (Oslo) you keep preaching it. The maps in your house, rather than saying Ponderosa and the Bonanza, say only The PONDEROSA (your ranch) and there is no Bonanza on your map at all.

  That is how I view the Israeli Arab conflict.

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]