I agree whole heartedly with the above post, remember Jesus warned that all this would happen, he didn't say in the bible" I'm coming to you to bring daughter and mom close, to bridge the gap between father and son, no he said very clearly that the realization of what truth really is would be the dividing factor. The same attitude displayed by the pharisees is being displayed by those in our halls today, how ever there are alot and I mean " ALOT" who are hurting inside, but we wait on Jehovah, the inspection of his house did not take place back in 1914 , any person who truly trusts Jehovah knows that , remember Jesus words? " on a day when the slave does not expect it the master will arrive to inspect" those of us, you and I have every thing we need in the bible, show compassion show love, show understanding, we have all the tools necessary You and I are serving in that great big house , now regardless of what the head slave is doing we all know our jobs, If you see some one down spiritually build them up, don't tear down, when Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman at the well that was a huge no no for a Jew at that time, liken that to seeing a DF'd person at the store now make application, where is your heart really? I saw a young man from our hall who has been df'd for 3 months walking twoards me at the mall, he saw me coming straight at him and looked almost scared and embarrassed like he didn't want to make eye contact, but instead I kept going at him I said his name and hugged him, we slapped eachother on the back just said hello and it was like that was all he needed, he walked away smiling and inside my heart felt so awsome. we only said hello , we didn't sit and chat for an hour or have lunch, but really I might have broken one of " MAN's" laws but I kept a very important one of God's laws, keep showing love to one another as I have show love to you. Even the Apostle Paul who I rarely quote becuase some times he reminds me of these olderones who have lost the love, even he said , dont punish a person to the point of where you become satanic in your dealings and then you break the person down so much their heart is broken into tiny pieces...... Woe to him that stumbles one of my little sheep. tender and compassionate is the true mark of some one who loves Jehovah.
Destroying One's Faith
by Sunspot 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Eliveleth
patientbrother said: "I agree whole heartedly with the above post, remember Jesus warned that all this would happen, he didn't say in the bible" I'm coming to you to bring daughter and mom close, to bridge the gap between father and son, no he said very clearly that the realization of what truth really is would be the dividing factor. The same attitude displayed by the pharisees is being displayed by those in our halls today, how ever there are alot and I mean " ALOT" who are hurting inside, but we wait on Jehovah, the inspection of his house did not take place back in 1914 , any person who truly trusts Jehovah knows that , remember Jesus words? " on a day when the slave does not expect it the master will arrive to inspect" those of us, you and I have every thing we need in the bible, show compassion show love, show understanding, we have all the tools necessary You and I are serving in that great big house , now regardless of what the head slave is doing we all know our jobs, If you see some one down spiritually build them up, don't tear down, when Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman at the well that was a huge no no for a Jew at that time, liken that to seeing a DF'd person at the store now make application, where is your heart really? I saw a young man from our hall who has been df'd for 3 months walking twoards me at the mall, he saw me coming straight at him and looked almost scared and embarrassed like he didn't want to make eye contact, but instead I kept going at him I said his name and hugged him, we slapped eachother on the back just said hello and it was like that was all he needed, he walked away smiling and inside my heart felt so awsome. we only said hello , we didn't sit and chat for an hour or have lunch, but really I might have broken one of " MAN's" laws but I kept a very important one of God's laws, keep showing love to one another as I have show love to you. Even the Apostle Paul who I rarely quote becuase some times he reminds me of these olderones who have lost the love, even he said , dont punish a person to the point of where you become satanic in your dealings and then you break the person down so much their heart is broken into tiny pieces...... Woe to him that stumbles one of my little sheep. tender and compassionate is the true mark of some one who loves Jehovah." The biggest hurt that most of us has had to endure is being ignored, shunned and spoken against. I believe that we were put on this earth to encourage, love and care for the others put here too. Our son is still a JW and sends us an email from time to time to tell us he has moved or some other "family business" but otherwise will not talk to us or let us visit him or his family. We have great-grandchildren we have never seen. There are many things that the WT has done that I would love to share with him, however, if I did it might discourage him and maybe even cause him to lose faith. I do not choose to do this because I believe that a person is happier and better off having faith in God, than they are without. I have a xjw friend who is very diligent in going out and posting pamphlets on doors exposing the doctrines and past history of the WT. Her son finally left, but now is living a totally immoral life. He has lost all his faith in God. I love Jehovah's Witnesses. I hate that they feel that they must obey the leaders of the WT and turn off their hearts to those who have left and call them names in their publications, but as long as my son (or any other JW) believes in God and Jesus (even though he may not have it correct) I feel he will be saved. I believe that God reads the heart and knows his sheep regardless of what else they believe. The Bible says:' Whoever believes in Jesus will be saved.' Encouragement and love is what we all need and are seeking. WE NEED TO SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE. There needs to be a place where we can go and expect that we will be built up. Those who are doubting the WT should be encouraged and not put down or called names. We who have left should be the ones loving and accepting, not trying to destroy their faith, since many of them equate faith in the WT with faith in God. Only God can lead them out at His time, but kindness and understanding go a long way to helping others to open up and express their doubts. When others attack our faith (even though we may be doubting) we immediately rise up to defend it, whether we are Christians, pagans, atheists or others. During our life in the WT of almost 50 years, we heard lots of stuff against the WT. We had our doubts many times about what was said but we were loyal to the WT. And at that time there was no place to go to express our doubts (1983) It took holy spirit (when we realized we could ask for it) and God's timing to bring us out.
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poppers
From fresia: "People shunned me when I became a witness even family, but thats ok because they were catholic."
I see your desire for tolerance only extends so far. You've just categorized about a half billion people because of their beliefs - they, apparently, aren't worth the bother since they're only "Catholics". -
hmike
I don't know if it's ok for me, a Newbie, to start here. If not, please tell me where to go.
Welcome, bluesmurf92!
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writetoknow
People do not like being shunned by any group doing so puts the person in a defensive mode that creats in them a need to get back into the group for approval. This can be an abusive relationship or a good relationship the brain does not always correlate the information correctly. In other words, our need for the approval does not make the group correct or even right.
Christ stated that there would be dragnets let down in the last days to gather good fish and bad fish. At the end of the ages God would send forth his angles to collect the good from the bad. Dragnets are not loving and kind they serve a purpose of gather fish harshly into a place they can be processed. Organized religion today are those dragnets people within those dragnets can be loving and helpful but it does not make the dragnet anything more then a tool. Witnesses and not only witnesses worship the dragnet rather than God.
There as many reasons for this as there are people in those dragnets. Mostly people believe something greater is needed than Christ. The need for a group, they need for support, the need for a fleshly places of worship and so on.
However, because the nature of dragnets are cruel and harsh people blame God instead the facts- the nets. When Christ was raised by his Father everything needed to complete the walk of a child of God was place in him in fullness. A Christain lack nothing because Christ has everything needed to complete us and provide the spiritual food and displine we need.
If two or more are gather in Christ name there is where he is, that is, God's Temple on earth. When people look too man for honor they lose sight of God's spiritual temple. We have approached a heavenly mt Zion that is far greater then the Solomons Temple or any religion on earth.
The need for organized religion is a man need not God need. Man need the power and recognation of the world and being honored by a group. Christ accepted no glory from men or their groups because his kingdom was not part of the earth system of things. Nor would he take new wine and put it into old wine skins.
One then must ask one self where are we leading people too? When disappointment come because all religion are tools that are harsh; have we built into our students the real foundation that cannot be burned up by fire? Furthermore, are we willing to play politics to support a religious organziation that will crush the God Spirit out of new students?
If one of us has been brought to that much light to understand the power of false religion and the affect it has upon little sheep that will be stumbled and we still teach them to come into organization of JW's Witnesses where does that place us in loyalty to Christ and His Father?
There is no place to go away to. You have left nothing and you can gain nothing more then what Christ already has and has had for 2000-years. All power in heaven and earth has been given to the Son of God. Within him dwells the fullness of God and his experience as a man on this earth. The walk of a Christain is very simple it about trusting those statements that is the only way to activate the Holy spirit. Without the God's spirit you cannot understand or see the real organization the only organization God approves that's in heaven. We walk by faith not by sight. Steven faith open the heaven to see Christ setting at the right hand of his Father. The reality was so bright it later blinded Paul.
Everthing a child of God does is because they are being lead by the Holy Spirit the appointments are already set if we trust, that is, have faith! A lowly flower of the field does not question itself and ask if it is a flower or if tommorow their be enough food to make it into a flower.
Shame on us for not trusting that God loves his sheep far more then we can - and has and did provide everything they need before the founding of this world. Shame on us if we feel Christ is not enough. Shame on us for not understanding God's love for His children that no glory goes to men for the incorrputable seed He has place in them. And shame on us for judging the children of a loving Father because they apear weak and foolish from an organized religous stand point.
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Honesty
Anyone that leaves and then abuses the brothers and goes against the teachings of Gods Organization is an apostate. fresia
I hate to burst your big bubble, dear.
The Watchtower Society/JW's has never been God's organization.
They are apostates and attempt to shipwreck innocent little Christian lambs who are not versed in Scripture.
When the new convert is first approached they are not well read at all about the bible. Many are unable to defend the gospel and these are the very ones the cults prey upon. Because they are not allowed to read any religious material but the WT publications! "Go ahead and offer them a copy of something you have about Jesus.".....They will not take it. your church and your pastor is of the devil."
What gives the JW's such a mentality?..
Do you wisely destroy apostate material? WT 3/15/1986
By attacking the body, the church, the Watchtower’s Governing Body causes millions to lose faith in promises made and lose ‘freedom in Christ.’ Watchtower’s Governing Body continues to pound away at the church. Listed here are just a small sample of mind control used on ‘babes’ of the word, who were not able to defend the faith when first contacted by the cult member. But below is the mind set they are suppose to follow:
"If it is difficult to be in harmony with organizational instructions, you had better check your standing before the Lord." WT/ 12/ 1/ 1933
"To keep in relationship with our ‘Savior, God,’ the great crowd needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." WT/11/15/ 1997, p. 26
"When Jesus came to God’s spiritual temple in 1918 for the purpose of judging men, Christendom was rejected." WT/8/1/p. 462, 1960
"Those who desire life in the new order must come into a relationship with the organization…" WT 11/15/ 1981, p. 16-17
"Outside the true Christian congregation what alternatives are there? Only Satan’s organization…" WT 3/1/ 1979, p. 24
Your attitude toward the wheatlike anointed "brothers" of Christ and the treatment you accord them will be the determining factor as to whether you go into "everlasting cutting-off" or receive "everlasting life." WT 8/1/81 p. 26
"Unless you are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do". WT/1/1981, p. 27
"So recognition of that governing body and its place in God’s theocratic arrangement of things is necessary for submission to the headship of God’s Son". WT 12/15/1972, page 755
Does any of that 'programming' sound like the organization you make it out to be?...
Did he or didn't he, promise "where two or more are gathered in his name, he would "also be?" Yes, and What does God think of that truth? 1 John3:7,('By using WT dogma, and after reading 1 John, 2:29, one is forced to conclude,..If ' 99% of JWs only knew." )
Also,"Has the Church ever been overcome?" Read John 14:23 and Revelation 3:20,('anyone') We would ask the Watchtower Society "Was there ever a time in history that these verses stopped being valid for whoever would believe them?" So we need to ask,.."Are they still trustworthy?" If they are, then you as a Jehovah’s Witness have a problem with unbelief. If they are, then Matthew 16:18 is also true!"What was Jesus’ promise to those seeking Him?" Did someone have to follow along with Christ if they had the right faith? no, nor does anyone need to follow a cult to gain salvation. Compare Luke 9:49-50.
No one denomination can claim to be the only way to God. Why? What did God have to say on this? See 1 John 4:4, 15 (anyone'), 1 John. 3:7, 1 John. 5:1,(Pronoun,'anyone,') 1John 2:29,("IF"). God deals with 'one on one.'
He was promising this long before the cults began invading our doorsteps telling us our faith will never save us without them being involved." -
Sunspot
fresia stated:
I think if someone is an apostate and puts them down all the time, they should be shunned. The churchs never used to allow homosexuality or fornicators adulterers now they except it some even marry gays, Gods standards have never changed but the churchs has. Jehovah's Witnesses standards have remained the same on these issues.
I find it amazing how the WTS-approved mind can wrap itself around readng MY profile and coming to the conclusions that were arrived at LOL! Somehow, the JW mindset automatically crams everything unscriptural into one big bag and applies these to ANYONE who leaves a man-made organization that makes grandiose and absurd claims about itself!
Do we EVER see any love, compassion or genuine warm concern for those that JWs THINK might have been "lost to Satan"....or do we see hatefilled chastisements, nasty references and a very mean-spirited attitude exhibited by the "religion that is known for the LOVE" that it (supposedly) demonstrates.
Way to GO Fresia....the "love" YOU are showing, is evident. People like you make me realize just how I was becoming and how unrelenting and judgmental I was taught to BE, as a JW.
Getting OUT of that Watchtower-trained mentality and having come INTO the much more tolerant and compassion for ALL "other religions".....seeing and accepting them as PEOPLE and not potential converts for the Watchtower.....has made ME a much more understanding type person. I truly feel pity for you Fresia....to be SO TIED INTO this cold and hatefilled form of religion......and to not really be a part OF it, but only on the outside looking in.
hugs,
Annie
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writetoknow
When a person becomes a JW's the first steps they go through is training for doctrinal rebuttals which is impressive for most. Next at some point the person is educated to take on a superior air over other people of other faiths. That is, to believe they have and hold a superior knowledge and because of that knowledge they are more special and favored of God Jehovah and His Son.
With that instilled into them and proven through door to door rebuttal practice the superior air is reinforced to the point they believe no one can read the bible without the help of the organzaition and truely understand it. Through this method a person cannot listen to anyone else point of view because as the person is speaking the witnesses is countering the information with a rebuttal to make the sale that is their point. When this is meant with resistance the witness then is proven right, that is, they have superior knowlege and the objection to their information proves it.
Of course what the truth is is not important. It is the proving of one self right and holding on to the agrument this is a protection against the insecuity of be found to be wrong on doctrinal points. Rather then addressing the real issue of inferiorty of having to right in all matters of faith the witness is reinforced by the need to be right by being black and white. This stems not from love and trust but an insecurity of life in general.
When a person is disfellowship it is the nature of the beast for a witness to assume a superior air over the person that is disfellowship and for the disfellowship person to assume the position of guilt. This is the base of an abusive relationship.
The truth is something like this. Imagine if you will that you have a large family of children and you loved them all the same. One day the local school calls you up and states that one of your children has been disfellowship from school and they are ordering you to stop treating your child as your child. In fact, if your a good citzen you will stop talking to your child and kick them out of your house.
Imagine once again someone telling the president of the United States that's how he must treat one of his children. Would there be a public outcry? Would that be disrespecting the position of the president of the United States?
Imagine again that a person of the United State an average citzen taking on a superior position and thinking I am doing the president a big favor by lowering myself to talk to the disfellowship president child!
That is the point of discord witnesses have come into through indoctrination. God said of Christ that he is not ashamed to call them brothers. Many were cut to the heart for their superior attitude they held over Christ because of their organzation teachings. They found out God was not ashamed to call Christ His Son despite the fact their faith disfellowship the Son of God.
It strange that a person would know the truth and not feel ashamed that the group they associate with has ruin the lives of thousands perhaps millions and yet they uphold it as a place to come back too. Moreover, to assume that they are in a superior position over a person that is disfellowship when in fact the disfellowship person is following in the foot steps of the Master himself. That the master was treated the same and stated that all of his brother were to receive the same treatment or they were not his brothers.
Strange that the lesser feels superior over the greater Paul was truely humble when he found out that he was wrong and he never stop preaching the Christ and about his underserved kindness.
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Sunspot
Of course what the truth is is not important. It is the proving of one self right and holding on to the agrument this is a protection against the insecuity of be found to be wrong on doctrinal points.
Agreed. Proving that Christ is our Savior and that following HIS instructions, cannot be compared to proving the WTS is right when it boasts a 130-year history of blunders and failed predictions and demands to follow ITS directions----still insisting that "it" is THE truth to the complete exclusion of ALL other faiths. Common sense tells us not to believe this.
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Terry
Surely Jesus is the model.
Surely Jesus is the example to follow.
Jesus exposed what was in error about HIS OWN religion: Judaism.
Jesus' opposers were members of his own religion.
Jesus engaged his fellow believers in his ministry while the religious leaders tried to stop him.
According to Jesus' own example, the only path of integrity is to point out error so that what is True can be seen in contrast.
According to Jesus' own example, confronting members of your own religion with the personal failure of the leadership is the correct way of proper worship even if you are ridiculed.
According to Jesus' own example, spending time with "worldly" people (taxcollectors, prostitutes, sinners, etc.) is not a high crime or misdemeanor if your purpose in doing so is honorable. But, you will possibly be villified and opposed for doing so by people who profess "Faith".
Jesus' life is a black and white example of the person of integrity speaking out against the very religion which is THE ONE TRUE religion gone awry.
The Governing Body has a different theory. It wants respect under any/all/every circumstance just BECAUSE it is in charge. It will allow no naysayer, critic, loyal opposition to speak out. It stifles comment, opinion and query because it fears to have its wrongs exposed! (The way Jesus exposed the religious leaders in his day.)
Who is the one who most needs FAITH DESTROYED? Is it not the religious hypocrite who will not allow discussion, debate, criticism, honest query and a fearless and searching investigation of what is true?
Destroying Faith in the LIE is the only path of integrity.