by You Know 99 Replies latest watchtower scandals
I appreciate your comments, YK.
Well, I don't appreciate his comments at all. Let me tell you that I have no intention of humouring some self-styled prophet who doesn't even have the common courtesy to answer a reasonable question, but just chooses to respond to the questions that suit him. Only Jesus had that privelege, I recall.
Englishman.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
Lefty Said:
"The apostates, via their enquiry’s with the NGO officials, were in the process of traitoriously forcing the UN to focus in on the Society’s being listed as an NGO while at the same time obviously never intending to abide by the requirements of being such an “associate”."
In essence, you are stating that the WTBTS lied to the UN to become listed by them. I believe you call this spiritual or theocratic warfare.
Honestly, that is the most reasonable explanation of why the WTBTS asked to become an NGO in the first place... I agree with you 100%.
Unfortunatly, I don't understand why the "Truth" would have to lie, and use the 'wild beast' of SATAN here on earth to help it with it's own agenda.. Interestingly enough, the "Wild Beast" didn't use your organization to further it's plans, did it? Why would JEHOVAH need help from the 'wild beast' to further his work, but the wild beast itself did not use Jehovah's organization to further it's work? Sounds backwards to me, doesn't it?
On top of that, the organization 'compromised' on their view, because as has been stated many times on this board, the Awake! magazine has run articles in the past few years shedding good light on the UN.. So, your organization not only is using the 'wild beast' to further it's work, but it's also speaking in complementary tones to the beast itself, so it could keep the association alive!!! In fact, if you read some of the messages in here, you can see that just changing the tone of those Awake! articles caused a few of the then current members to stumble.
So, to recap, the organization needed the 'wild beasts' help to continue it's preaching work. To get this help, it lied and used deception to become associated with the 'beast', and then was willing to lie and deceive some of it's own in their own Awake! magazine in order to keep the association alive and well, causing some of their own 'flock' to stumble in the process.
It's nice to see that the organization uses lies and deception on it's own 'flock' as well as on the rest of the 'world'.. And it worked, from what you can read here.. Many then current witnesses were stumbled by the fact that the organization was speaking 'good' of the UN..
At any rate, what I personally hope comes from all of this is that the WTBTS's 'spiritual warfare' strategy comes out into the open, so you cannot deceive any new 'worldings' into falling for your organization's lies and deceit.
It would be good bonus if the average JW realizes that s/he was also deceived by reading stuff in the Awake! magazine that even the GB didn't believe, but had to print in order to keep the deception with the beast alive and well..
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive...
The truth NEVER would have to resort to lies and deceit to get it's message across, but that is the only way that you can honestly get new 'disciples' because if they knew the entire truth about your 'good news', they would run away faster than I could say, "You want some Kool-aid?".
- Wannahelp
Lefty & You Know: I'm glad that even the JW's can have differences of opinion in sizing up this whole ridiculous situation, and come to such different "theories" of why it happened. You guys gonna take bets as to which "new light" the society decides to take to public forum for their answer?
I do not have the gift of well written verbage as many here on these boards. I came on-line a few weeks ago to see how the JW's were responding to the current tragic events. This led me to do some investigating on the JW's religion as a whole, which has so many confusing changes in doctrine, so many "mishaps" with dates & what not, so many diabolical decisions regarding child molestors (what happened to giving Ceasers things to Ceaser?), the founders of this organization were/are suspect at best. You call this all the "mistakes of man". You give me examples of Moses who did not go into the promised land for indiscreetly taking credit for God's work (which did not "stumble" thousands such as WTBTS has done over the years with their "new light"). You say no other religion is doing what the witnesses are doing (once again mistaken - you haven't actually done any research on this to know). You quote other "worldly" people if it progresses your own doctrines. You slam other religions for doing the very things the JW's do, and show that as examples of them being "Babylon the Great", yet will not admit this makes the JW's just as suspect of not being "the one". Person within your organization have repeatedly become mental cases, suicide statistics (yes - that is in all religions/worlds - but very rare is a suicide due to the fact that the religion one chooses to believe is so strict, so severe, so gut-wrenchingly difficult to follow that they become sure they are totally unworthy of God's love) to the extent that message boards such as this are necessary for the person to become mentally healthy again and seek out others that were traumatized by THEIR RELIGION. By their seeking God!!!!! You're right - you may stand out in a select few for those facts above. Your shunning doctrines have destroyed so many peoples lives/families its astounding. You stand out again in this doctrine.
It has been said that God's true followers (note not organization) would be known for "their works". I give to both of you that in the eyes of the world, and many people who are truly seeking God, that the JW's only stand out as examples of a cult that so controls its people to the point of hurting many of its members. Just because you're one of the few (and note I said few) religions that go "door-to-door" and happen to expect their members to behave in a christian fashion, this does not transfer to the outside world. Believe me, you are not known for your "love" and "your works" unless you attribute works as meaning letting thousands die/be shunned/be molested to "misunderstandings of god's word", and whens the last time either of you referred to another human being as "bird food" - this is love? I cannot believe God's "mouthpiece" would allow such contradictions in words vs. deeds.
You are right Englishman,
He won't carry on a real discussion. He takes the pieces of other people's comments that he wants to expound upon to make his point, but never is willing to discuss.
A shame, since my questions were sincere.
take care
Joel
You Know, above all, you are an interesting interpretation of the scriptures..I thank you for your opinion..I agree with a small bit of what you said....thanks.
Ashi
You know &LEFTY,when you help a bank robber in any way shape or form you are as guilty as the bank robber.The same go`s for terrorist`s and murderer`s.In your case you support a religion that has Whored itself{by thier own definition} at the expense of it`s own people, and now you attempt to protect the same organisation by any mean`s possible.You support an organisation that would kill member`s of your own family simply for not joining up.Then you have the gall to QUOTE SCRIPTURE. Your not even smart enough to be ashamed of your selve`s much less guide other people`s live`s! People are often judged by the company they keep.What a sorry pair of WHORE`S!
You Know,
I must speak out in behalf of Moses. Under no circumstance can what he did be compared to what your leaders have done. Moses did not commit a deliberate sin, he acted out of anger because of the complaining and rebellious Israelites. (Numbers 20: 2-5) Certainly he acted rashly, but as Moses himself said at Deuteronomy 3:26: “And Jehovah continued to be furious against me on your account and did not listen to me; but Jehovah said to me, ‘That is enough of you! Never speak to me further on this matter.’” You will notice, it was on account of the Israelites that Moses committed this sin. You could even say that they stumbled Moses. Notice that Jehovah accused Moses of ‘failing to sanctify him before the nation,’ not of presumptuousness or blasphemy, a deliberate sin. Numbers 20:12 says: “Later Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron: ‘Because you did not show faith in me to sanctify me before the eyes of the sons of Israel, therefore you will not bring this congregation into the land that I shall certainly give them.’” Moses would not have been allowed to continue another day as leader of the nation of Israel after having committed such a grievous sin. Certainly Jehovah would not have allowed the nation to mourn Moses death as they did. As it was, Moses’ sin was such that Jehovah could not let him take the nation into the promise land. But he continued to exhort the nation to faithfulness until they reached the land. A blasphemous person would not have been allowed this privilege.
Now let’s consider what the WTBTS did. You can in no way consider their leaguing up with the UN a mistake. If they did not recognize what the UN stood for and its place in Bible prophecy, then you might have a case. But they have been writing for 80 or more years in their literature that this organization is the’ disgusting thing’ of Bible prophecy and hence for them to go ahead and become an NGO in association with the DPI is indefensible. Not only that, but they hid what they were doing from their flock. Now if they became a NGO in order to do humanitarian works, why hide this from the R&F and why resign the position when it becomes known what you have been doing for nine years. Job 31:33 says of this: “If I was like an earthly man, I covered over my transgressions by hiding my error in my shirt pocket.” In what way does this resemble what Moses did?
If it was a mistake, why did it take nine years for them to realize their mistake? What was holy spirit doing these nine years? Not only did they hide the sin, but they also can be said to have practiced this sin as they did it for nine years. This is something that the Bible says ‘anointed individuals’ can not do. 1 John 3: 9 says: “Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin because his reproductive seed remains in such ones, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God.”
They always exhort the flock to wait on Jehovah to deal with difficult problems. Why did they not wait on Jehovah to open up the various lands that they were not allowed to preach in. Why did they need to take matters into their hands by trying to get into these countries by the ‘backdoor’ so to speak, all the while lying to the DPI about their reasons for becoming an NGO. As Jehovah asks in Isaiah 50:2, which says in part: “Has my hand become in fact so short that it cannot redeem, or is there in me no power to deliver?” Isn’t this what presumptuousness really is, running ahead of Jehovah? Again, in what way does this resemble what Moses did? Jehovah had already told him what he was to do to provide water for the people. When did Jehovah tell the GB that it was okay to join hands with the ‘disgusting thing’ in order to accomplish their work?
In using their publications to espouse the UN, they have allowed this entity to 'stand in a place where it ought not to be;' thereby committing the 'transgression that causes desolation.' Moses did not do this.
As far as applying Luke 12:47,48 to the GB, I believe you have a problem. If you expect to defend the Governing Body by saying that they did not understand, then I have to ask why would they be appointed to a position of leadership over God’s people and Jesus not prepare them for it? Why appoint someone over the flock who ‘does not understand' and has to beaten with a few stripes? This sounds to me to be a someone who has not been given much responsibility. The flock couldn't possibly be getting their 'food at the proper time' under this kind of leadership. It makes more sense to say that the appointed leaders ‘did understand but refused to do the master's will or get ready’ as they had been commanded.
bjc
Hello Cuddles,
Hope that you are well. Glad to see that you have been keeping your good eye on this bad Board.
Your anti-WTS stance seems to be heading into a more crystallized territory as time passes YK.
I guess if you want to take the scenic route to Apostate City instead of taking the direct route that is your own business.
When you arrive, give me a call.
Best regards - HS
You Know's analysis of the WTS seems to be correct - too many lawyers. But he cannot rationalize the logical consequences because of a severe case of cognitive dissonace. This is God's org, he proclaims, and the more it fucks up, the more we know it is such - except that it will be surely punished.
You Know ruined his chances in life by taking too many drugs and being influenced by demons. Now he cannot separate truth from fiction. After all, if he lost his hope that he's anointed what would be left for him? He's yet another WTBTS victim although they did him the "favor" of helping to prolong an already miserable life. Without the spiritual carrots supplied by the WTBTS where would he be? An entire pyschologists' conference could be devoted to this King of Swing but to no avail. Yet another crackpot voice in the wilderness. I'd laugh were it not so sad, because even YK is a person, with aspirations and even, possibly, a sense of morality, no matter how twisted.
T.
"...my faith is not shaken by stuff like this."
Of course it is Mr. King. That IS exactly why you "felt" the NEED to "report". It ONLY stands to reason.
sKally
