YK on WT UN NGO STATUS

by You Know 99 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  Gozz

  bjc,
  Thanks for that last post.YK is attempting to misuse an argument frequently misused by Watchtower writers.

  When faced with a situation that clearly shows their irresposibility, they dig into the bible and expound on the honest mistake of some prophet to show that what they've done isn't really bad. In a recent Watchtower article, the writing department justified the act of lying per "theocratic war strategy" by referring to the situation of Abraham and Sarah in Egypt. Lot was also obliquely referred to, the writers saying that "although" lot did not show respect/discretion in the matter of the choice of pasture between him and Abraham, the bible "still" referred to him as an honest man... No, the "mistake" of Moses cannot be compared with the adulterous relationship of the Society with the UN. And beyond what the Watchtower believes about the UN, it is indecent to tell deliberate lies. The Watchtower isn't much more than political governments who routinely lie to their populace, and by killing the faith people have in God, the Watchtower Society is reprehensible, much more than other religions they love to castigate.
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  ttrollrick

  All i can say is good job!! I am a recent ex jw, very recent and i might add i am not df'd or even publicly reproved (not yet anyway) but I am so very tired of listening to these men constantly placing these stumbling blocks in front of people i would love to still call my friends who want to serve Jehovah so much and yet have allowed themselves to be pulled into follwing man i.e.the society, and to be led so far away from the love of Jesus Christ, and it hurts that they don't even know it. and then there are those like lefty who is soo pompus that he feels he even has to correct you know in his excuse making always blaming someone or something else (usually someone of such a spiritual standing as they will never understand like moses)
  for the shortcomings of these haughty men placing themseleves as a so called governing body HOW DARE THEY!!! Think that Christ Jesus would need them to do his work. i guess i'm babbling now but anyway thanks for being able to put into words many of my thoughts .
• 

  You Know

  I, personally, find no fault whatsoever with the actions of the WTS … either with being an NGO or withdrawing as such once it became obvious (due to exposure by apostate enemies) that it would no longer be useful to remain “associated” as an NGO.

  Lefty: I am glad that you are not stumbled by the Society's NGO status. And far be it from me to be an accuser of my brothers. Nonetheless, the question should be: How does Jehovah view such an alliance? As you know, an NGO is an organization that supports the goals and values of the United Nations. The stated goal of the United Nations is to bring peace and security to the whole planet, which of course is totally impossible for humans to do. To bring about that goal though the United Nations feels that individual nations must relinquish their claim to national sovereignty. Globalists visionaries have in fact declared the nation state system of independent sovereign nations to be the most destructive and devisive force on the planet, which it is not. The empire is by far the most dangerous human institution. Nationalists rightly are horrified and see the unspoken agenda of the UN's backers as a cunning ploy to establish a global empire. (Prophecy seems to indicate that they will succeed.)

  NGO's are enlisted by the UN to help promote the globalist's view, and to in subtle and overt ways undermine nationalism while promoting the One World religious, political, and social propaganda. Our Christian neutrality requires that we be neither for or against any political system. So, while we are under obligation to follow the laws of Ceasar, to the extent that we can in good conscience, it is also recognized that we cannot promote the anti-God policies or politics of any institution.

  I remember back during the Gulf War when George Bush called for UN action against Iraq. It was the end of the Cold War and Bush described the new cooperation among the nations as a "New World Order." Shortly after that time the Society advised us to stop using that term "New Order" to describe the new system. That's because we didn't want people to connect us in any way to the political New Order of Satan's devising. So there is definitely a problem here with the Watchtower aligning itself with a political organization that acts as a counterfeit of God's kingdom.

  The Society has the right and responsibility to use strategy in the best interests of the preaching work, and looking after the interests of true worship throughout the earth.

  I agree. But there is a very thin line between using whatever legal means are at our disposal and compromise. I would remind you of Jehovah's displeasure with Israel when they made political alliances with Egypt. True, they were seemingly acting for their own self preservation, and they could argue that they were protecting the interests of God's true worship from the threat of Babylonian invasion, but Jehovah viewed such an alliance as an act of unfaithfulness. There are two entire chapters in Isaiah where Jehovah rebukes his own people for their looking to Egypt. Those prophecies also have application to our time. In fact, we quote from portions of them freely as having relevance in our day.

  The accusations of apostates are a trivial thing as far as I am concerned. It is the accusations of Jehovah that we have to worry about. And, I am well aware that at some point we must bear Jehovah's scathing denunciation in order to later receive his healing blessing.

  / You Know
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  You Know

  ENGLISHMAN:

  Well, I don't appreciate his comments at all. Let me tell you that I have no intention of humouring some self-styled prophet who doesn't even have the common courtesy to answer a reasonable question, but just chooses to respond to the questions that suit him. Only Jesus had that privelege, I recall.

  Wrong: You have already humored me. LOL The apostle advised all Christians to turn down foolish and ignorant questions. So, it is not only my privelege, it is my duty to not respond to stupid or baited questions of ridiculers. / You Know
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  You Know

  bjc2012:

  You can in no way consider their leaguing up with the UN a mistake.

  You and I are not the judge of God's people, so it matters very little whether you consider it a mistake or not. But, as for the comparison to Moses, that is a connection that the Scriptures make with God's anointed ones. Also, it must be kept in mind that Moses was one individual, but the Society, although it speaks with one voice, is made up of many individuals. The Watchtower organization is a very large institution and it is quite possible that not all members of the Governing Body were quite aware of what some in the Public Relations and Legal Department were doing, or if they were aware they might not have been in full agreement or at least had reservations but bowed to those who felt they knew better. Whatever the case though, as a spiritual nation, we all bear responsibility before God. And as I have stated elsewhere many times, we will accept Jehovah's rebuke. So, in that respect a few presumptuous memebers of the organization could have been responsible for bringing the whole Society under reproach. That would be in keeping with the fact that the prophecy calles for agents from within to mislead with smooth words those who were sinning against the covenant. In fact, the prophecy of Daniel that I cited earlier, foretold that even some of those with insight would be made to stumble in order to effect a refining, cleansing, and whitening of the faithful ones.

  If it was a mistake, why did it take nine years for them to realize their mistake? What was holy spirit doing these nine years?

  You are not in any position to say what the holy spirit does or doesn't do. As the prophecy says: 'Even some of those with insight will be made to stumble.' So, yes, God's holy spirit allows an operation of error to go on until it has achieved its purpose to refine and cleanse the faithful. You indicate by your ignorant question that you are one who is stumbled because of your not knowing God. The prophecy furthermore relates that those who know their God will prevail and act effectively. This definitely allows for the sort of mistake and blunder that has occured among Jehovah's people to ultimately accomplish God's will by winnowing out insincere ones.

  They always exhort the flock to wait on Jehovah to deal with difficult problems. Why did they not wait on Jehovah to open up the various lands that they were not allowed to preach in. Why did they need to take matters into their hands by trying to get into these countries by the ‘backdoor’ so to speak.

  Well, perhaps that's the question that the Master will pose to his slaves. It is similar to Moses' taking matters into his own hands as I previously pointed out.

  In using their publications to espouse the UN, they have allowed this entity to 'stand in a place where it ought not to be;' thereby committing the 'transgression that causes desolation.' Moses did not do this.

  Well, what the Society has done may well be the "transgression" for which Jehovah allows us to be laid low for a time. The fact that Moses' sin is recorded, and that he is unquestionably a type for God's anointed ones, indicates to me that the specific nature of his sin is not what is important. What is of prophetic significance is that God called his anointed leader of his people to account and punished him. The 97th, or perhaps the 98th Psalm, in fact, refers to Moses' "notorious deeds" that Jehovah forgave. That's what has importance. Jehovah breaks a bone, but Jehovah also heals. The Devil and his apostate dupes would incite God to swallow his up completely. That's not going to happen.

  As far as applying Luke 12:47,48 to the GB, I believe you have a problem. If you expect to defend the Governing Body by saying that they did not understand, then I have to ask why would they be appointed to a position of leadership over God’s people and Jesus not prepare them for it?

  There's no problem. Christ appointed the apostles over the first century organization and yet he rebuked them many times.

  Why appoint someone over the flock who ‘does not understand' and has to beaten with a few stripes? This sounds to me to be a someone who has not been given much responsibility.

  I think the prophecy in Daniel answers that question where it says that some of those with insight will be made to stumble in order to refine and cleanse and whiten God's people. The apostle James also said that not many should be teachers because they will recieve a heavier judgment. James went on to say that we all stumble many times. So, Jehovah's word acknowledges that even prominent teachers within his congregations are prone to foolish mistakes. The lash that Christ administers to his faithful but erring slave is in full harmony with the way that God deals with his servants.

  The flock couldn't possibly be getting their 'food at the proper time' under this kind of leadership.

  The facts prove otherwise. The faithful slave has kept Jehovah's Witnesses focused upon our assignment to preach the good news of the kingdom. That is no small accomplishment. But he has succeeded in doing that in spite of all the difficulties and pressures brought to bear against him. I am confident that Jesus will eventually give his "well done faithful slave" commendation to those who endure to the end. / You Know
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  You Know

  WANNAHELP:

  Why would God allow people that have come to him via the F&DS to be disfellowshipped for matters that, at the time of disfellowship, were 'not the current light' but have since been changed by the F&DS to be the 'current light'? And, even though their past 'sins' are now ok in the eyes of the F&DS, they have received no appology, nor have they been re-instated..

  Since all of Jehovah's Witnesses are subject to the same mis-steps and changed policies and doctrines of the faithful slave, the question is: Why aren't we all stumbled? Why is it just a relative handful who leave or are disfellowshipped over such issues? Can you answer that? Another question is: If the matter that originally stumbled someone has been corrected, so that you imagine that those disfellowshipped deserve an apology, why wouldn't such a one return to the organization anyway? Perhaps they would get their apology from the local elders that disfellowshipped them in the first place? But, let's be honest, you and I both know that those who apostatize are merely looking for a pretext to leave the organization for selfish reasons. God has generously supplied such ones with ample reasons to excuse themselves from the faith, none of which though are valid. / You Know
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  You Know

  GOSS:

  The Watchtower isn't much more than political governments who routinely lie to their populace, and by killing the faith people have in God, the Watchtower Society is reprehensible, much more than other religions they love to castigate.

  That's silly. They haven't killed my faith in God, nor can they kill true faith. True enough though, they have stumbled some spiritual toddlers who can't quite get their foot over the stumbling block, but that's just the way it is. Jesus himself is called the "Stone of Stumbling" because millions just cannot accept his teachings. His imperfect slave stumbles some also. Jesus even said that causes for stumbling are inevitable, yet he pronounced woe upon those through whom the stumbling blocks come. So, there will be punishment for such things. But primarily it is apostates who will receive the sentence of everlasting death because they are the ones who advertise the slaves' shortcomings and they make every effort to see to it that the stumbling blocks are palced before as many faithful ones as possible who ordinarily might not have been aware of the things that cause stumbling. The Psalms ay that God is going to remove the stumbling blocks of the wicked ones. So, that's what is coming. By the way, in the Law of Moses, anyone who falsely accused another of a crime that they could be put to death for were themselves put to death---receiving the penalty upon themselves. That's just something to keep in mind when Jehovah's judgments are finally unveiled from heaven. / You Know
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  D wiltshire

  YK,

  I LIKE THE WAY YOU LET LEFTY HAVE IT!

  YOU GAVE IT TO HIM BOTH BARRELS!

  TELL HIM TO GET OFF THIS SITE IT'S APOSTATE!

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
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  stocwach

  You Know,

  The WBTS has a pathetic history of predicting Armageddon, which I hope you are aware of. Yet they speak out against Babylon with her false prophets!! If this is not hypocrisy, then please define it for me. How can this be God's organization, when not one prophecy has come true???

  Elders seem to point to the fact that what other religion has grown the extent that it has, and is preaching worldwide the "good news"--it must be God's organization! Do you honestly believe JWs would have grown to the size they are if instead of receiving info on how the live everlastingly in Paradise with no pain or suffering, they received a tract on all the failed prophecies, all the changes in doctrine (like whether those from Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected--what a joke), all the numerous changes in CD sets and bound volumes of publications from the originals to cover up blunders, the fact that the Bible JWs use has been doctored up so much to cater to doctrine by numerous people that have never had any formal Greek or Hebrew training (Franz was the only one), etc???!!!

  The Society denounces independent thinking, and for that I commend you for sticking to the tee on that principle. Sad, that is precisely why no matter how rational or objective an argument may be, you will fail to recognize it if it goes against the Society. But if you do, you must realize that for that moment you will be a non-JW.
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  Thirdson

  What I find here about the excuses for the WTS in that "Jehovah allows a transgression" and then cleans it up in his good time, is why does he use ex-members of the religion to do this?

  The majority of people who raised questions to the UN bear no allegiance to the WTS. Yet these ones questioned the UN, which started an investigation that caused the guilty "knee-jerk" reaction of the WTS disassociating.

  Does God "inspire", sorry "direct" former members to clean up his organization? Surely, God would direct his own people.

  I guess some will say there are be examples from history of how the Babylonians were used, (blah, blah blah, in 800 words or more) but then again some people can make an excuse for anything and no matter what the wrong the Watchtower is always right because they say they are.

  Thirdson

  'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'