Luke 6:29-30 (page 3)

Word

Narkissos

Iow, the excuse's name is Paul.

I am close to Paul, and even closer to John.

Thank you word for your answer, I get some of it but then again how can you prove that You have the right understanding and the other "Christians" don't? Were do you get your understanding of god's "word"? Now don't tell me I need god's holy spirit because that is circular reasoning. An other thing, you said that we can not fulfil god's law, then what's the point of having such a law? If god know this, why does he call it a law? The point of a law is for people to follow it, right?

tula

I am disappointed. I thought this was an excellent question and had hoped for thoughtier answers from all of you.

If someone slaps you and you turn the other cheek....people consider you spineless and weak. (Therefore you are "persecuted for righteousness sake"???)

if someone takes from you and you do not defend yourself or ask for it back...you are considered a fool. Not only that, it means that you go without. Why should you go without when you worked hard for something and just oblige someone who wants to steal it from you?

I don't quite understand why it is "righteousness" to allow this. How can "righteousness" be "fairness"?

And to let it slide, well as long as you hold a grudge it eats at you. So how have you done the right thing? It has caused you stress and deep seated anger that you cannot resolve. And stress causes emotional and physical harm to yourself.

Give to everyone who asks you...well, you have to use some judgement here otherwise you could be supporting a lot of drunks and gamblers.

so you tell me...how would these actions be righteous, just and fair?

Word

Thank you word for your answer, I get some of it but then again how can you prove that You have the right understanding and the other "Christians" don't? Were do you get your understanding of god's "word"? Now don't tell me I need god's holy spirit because that is circular reasoning. An other thing, you said that we can not fulfil god's law, then what's the point of having such a law? If god know this, why does he call it a law? The point of a law is for people to follow it, right?

The point with the old commandments (j ewish ) and the new commandments (christian) are the same, to make us understand that w e simply don’t measure up to Him (God).

I got this understanding of Jesus words from Paul and other early christians like John.

To be a christian is not be a law-doer

According to the jews, Jesus broke the law several times.

According to us Hi did not.

By melting together with Him (Christ) we become what hi is, righteous in front of God.

I can't prove anything to you, but you should be able to recognise this words of mine .

Anti-Christ

The point with the old commandments (j ewish ) and the new commandments (christian) are the same, to make us understand that w e simply don’t measure up to Him (God).

So all the Israelites who were stoned to death for disobeying the law even if god knew they could not follow it was to prove a point? Nice!

esw1966

to all the Christians out there, how many of you follow this?

Christianity isn't, "Are you DOING it all?" That's called WORKS. It's all about grace and accepting Christ as your saviour from hypocrisy and failures. That's called GRACE.

Trying to pick at individuals failures doesn't prove anything but our own weaknesses. The point is we are all hypocrates and failures. That is what the Bible's point is. To show that our works can't accomplish anything. Our only way to a whole life and one with eternity in view is to accept that fact that we can't do it and to accept Christ's life and sacrifice in our place.

The whole thing falls into place after that. Being forgiven and loved makes you WANT to do what is good. It doesn't mean you will always do it.

Ethan

Sad emo

27 "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful

CONTEXT makes a big difference!! The verses you quoted are about not taking revenge even though 'it's your right'. They're about showing mercy even to those who 'don't deserve it'. They're about beig generous - even to those who you don't think deserve it. They're also about not being taken for a complete doormat! They're about 'As you judge, so shall you be judged'.

In a nutshell, it's like Word has said - aiming for a higher standard, not in a rigid, legalistic sense, but by our attitude. And yes I do try to stick to these principles although I fail often.

(I know you've been following the replies here so just to let you know I'm retiring for the night now so I won't be back till tomorrow if you ask a question about my post!!)

Word

So all the Israelites who were stoned to death for disobeying the law even if god knew they could not follow it was to prove a point? Nice!

The men that stoned to death " the Israelites " are the same men that stoned to death the first christians and are the same men that handed over Jesus to the Romans.

We dont like them, either ! They are the law-doer s, that misunderstood everything.

Even until today.

Quandry

31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

I used to think (as a JW) that the scriptures about giving someone your garment were literal and were to be followed literally, being a reaction to persecution because of following Jehovah.

I now see it as more of an object lesson and not literal. That we are to show mercy to others. That we are to treat others as we would like to be treated. It makes sense and wouldn't we all like to live in a world where people did treat others with kindness.

I went to the beach today. People threw plastic drink containers on the sand and then got up and left them. I picked up many trash items as I was leaving and threw them into the very conveniently placed trash cans. It reminded me of the saying about birds soiling their own nest.

I think Jesus had beautiful lessons and certainly practiced what he preached. He can never be accused of being a hypocrite. Yes, I claim to be a Christian, and although I have many more questions now than answers, intend to follow Jesus' good example to the best of my limited ability.

Anti-Christ

Christianity isn't, "Are you DOING it all?" That's called WORKS. It's all about grace and accepting Christ as your saviour from hypocrisy and failures. That's called GRACE.
Trying to pick at individuals failures doesn't prove anything but our own weaknesses. The point is we are all hypocrites and failures. That is what the Bible's point is. To show that our works can't accomplish anything. Our only way to a whole life and one with eternity in view is to accept that fact that we can't do it and to accept Christ's life and sacrifice in our place.
The whole thing falls into place after that. Being forgiven and loved makes you WANT to do what is good. It doesn't mean you will always do it.
Ethan

Thank you Ethan, I really do appreciate when people take the time to explain to me why they believe certain things.

Now, just to explain why I do not believe in this, you see I think that we do not need the bible at all to know we have weaknesses, we find that out fast enough and I do not need to be forgiven to want to do what is good, because I do not need to be forgiven, if I am a "sinner" it is not my fault so why should I need to be forgiven? If I was born a "sinner" I did not choose to be one, so why is Jesus sacrifice necessary? I do not think it is a good idea to believe that we are failures, according to the god of the bible we might not stand up to him, but is that really our fault? He is suppose to be perfect and all powerful so is it fair to compare us to him? Once again if we are born this way, how can we be held responsible?

Luke 6:29-30

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