by Anti-Christ 60 Replies latest watchtower bible
The men that stoned to death " the Israelites " are the same men that stoned to death the first christians and are the same men that handed over Jesus to the Romans.
We dont like them, either ! They are the law-doer s, that misunderstood everything.
Even until today.
Sorry but that was part of "god's law" they were instructed to execute those who did not obey the law, execution was part of the law.
Jeeze I was expecting somebody to say , if you believe that then please send me some money. The first century church was clearly way different than what we see today with all these money grubbing preachers running around telling people they either hand over the money or they go to hell . Instead the call to sell everything you own and not concern yourself with material things was the way christians were . Not even to worry about what they would eat the next day.
That is not a statement to be taken absolutely it would be so silly to surrender all forms of self defense and fall into the power of an evil individual, that just doesn't add up.
It more likely is an admonition to be meek and tolerate a lot of aggression from others but not in an unlimited way.
Ok greendawn then what did jesus mean when he said I am sending as sheep amongst wolves ? There are plenty of scriptures that support the view that one should not return evil for evil .
CONTEXT makes a big difference!! The verses you quoted are about not taking revenge even though 'it's your right'. They're about showing mercy even to those who 'don't deserve it'. They're about being generous - even to those who you don't think deserve it. They're also about not being taken for a complete doormat! They're about 'As you judge, so shall you be judged'.
Okay, good point but why did god wait so long to change an eye for an eye, to love your enemies and turn the other cheek?
I now see it as more of an object lesson and not literal. That we are to show mercy to others. That we are to treat others as we would like to be treated. It makes sense and wouldn't we all like to live in a world where people did treat others with kindness.
I could respect that no problem but a lot of different cultures have the same kind of morals and I agree there are some good principals in the NT but a lot of it is ambiguous and you need to use common sense to figure out a lot of things, I'm just saying that you have to choose what you take literally and you have to choose what to take figuratively, so why do we need the bible? Why not just use our common sense?
What I meant was not so much returning evil for evil but defending oneself, if someone's aggression goes beyond a certain limit and threatens to seriously damage one's personal life or fundamental interests then there is the right of self defense. It's a natural right no law can overturn.
Eg if someone intrudes into your house and attacks you or your family with a knife you have the right for self defense. If he gets killed in the struggle then it's his fault both by divine and human law. There is no margin here for turning the cheek.
Some say that the Sermon on the Mount contains some of the greatest advice known to man. That its superb wisdom is evidence of its divine origins.
Balogna.
It's full of lousy advise, and everyone knows it, that's why nobody actually OBEYS it.
"40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. "
Does anyone here follow this advice? (If so, don't admit to it, if you want to keep your clothes.)
"25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? "
Thankfully, everyone realizes that this is some pretty bad advice also.
It's insane and you know it. So why pretend that it's something special?
Lore
Sorry but that was part of "god's law" they were instructed to execute those who did not obey the law, execution was part of the law.
If a group of christians started to do this,
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away.
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.
Matthew 5:29-30 (New International Version)
You could say that God instructed them to do this.
But, would that be a true statement ? No.
The same goes for the old testament. They never knew God.
Now, just to explain why I do not believe in this, you see I think that we do not need the bible at all to know we have weaknesses, we find that out fast enough and I do not need to be forgiven to want to do what is good, because I do not need to be forgiven, if I am a "sinner" it is not my fault so why should I need to be forgiven? If I was born a "sinner" I did not choose to be one, so why is Jesus sacrifice necessary? I do not think it is a good idea to believe that we are failures, according to the god of the bible we might not stand up to him, but is that really our fault? He is suppose to be perfect and all powerful so is it fair to compare us to him? Once again if we are born this way, how can we be held responsible?
No its not ours fault, its Adams fault, but the guilt is upon us all.
This guilt must be delt with so that Love can enter into the world.
(common psychological knowledge)
All the cultures of the world have been trying to deal with this puzzling ancient guilt,
sacrificing God knows what, blaming who knows who, unsucsesfully.
Jesus Christ is the only true way out of this mess.
Now your are insulting my intelligence, you want me to believe that god never instructed people to be executed for disobeying god's law? Let me refresh your memory. First, the flood, god kills every thing except 8 people and some animals. What about Sodom and Gomorrah? And then lot's wife. Now what about these verses Ex. 21: 17 Ex 32: 27-29 and there are a lot more. So I think the Israelites knew god pretty well.You could say that God instructed them to do this.
But, would that be a true statement ? No.
The same goes for the old testament. They never knew God.
