How bad can it get?

by TooBad TooSad 20 Replies latest jw friends

White Dove

Have you noticed that the cultists that killed themselves did it to get into some kind of paradise or get a reward? That took real faith! Well...what's keeping the JW's? Not enough faith, it would seem. Bad cultists, BAD!
ex-nj-jw

((((((((((((((((TBTS))))))))))))
I can only imagine how you must feel sitting through those meetings. When I first found JWD I couldn't understand why so many were fading, still going to meetings. Since hearing so many stories I realize the struggle you must have tring to get your family out in tact! And believe me I don't envy you at all.
I can't offer any advise, all I can give is a big cyber hug ((((((((((((((((((((((TSTB))))))))))))))))))))
nj
still_in74

at the book studies lately I have caught myself actually shaking my head in amazement.
The seven trumpet blasts being seven resolutions from 7 district conventions? All that prophecy surviving thousands of years climaxing in a tract at a 1923 convention???
oh but there were 50 million copies!!! Well where are they today?
If this was such a momumental event why do only the JW's remember it? Wasnt this the proclamation against christendom? The 1/3 the oceans become blood? The life dies? The ships sink?
How does this wind up as 50 million tracts that went in the garbage and nobody remembers?
Before that in the rev book it was talking about Rutherford and the great crowd on earth and the sealing of the 144k in 1919. Wait a minute!! The sealing was in 1935! Why does the rev book show this statement as an encouraging presentation by the Judge when the info was wrong? Was I the only one in the room that saw the hypocrisy of that?
But wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!! the May 1st 2007 Watchtower "Question from Readers"?
"When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?"

"Thus it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends."
You mean its not 1935??? So then it is 1919 then right, just like the Rutherford said here quoted in the Revelation book! See its right here! It was what encouraged those dispondant after 1914! Thats why you put this here right?? I mean, you wouldnt possibly reveal that Jehovah strengthened his annointed by telling them they are sealed as his chosen ones of the 144k when in fact they were not sealed would you? Not when you know that doing so was a lie would you? You mean it may not be sealed even now???? What about all those replacements Freddie talked about??
You mean Freddie liked to put himself on a pedastal with all the other annointed and have the R&F look up to him/them as something unattainable to them? You mean he liked to withold that privilege from the R&F and keep it for himself and his friends?
Excuse me while I puke.......... discovering everything you ever believed is Bullshit is a little nausiating !!
DannyHaszard

YEP! The bloodsucking Watchtower defrauded 3 generations of my Haszard clan ran us into the ground.
erandir

the rev. book is starting to really bother me and I only want to climax with you dear
That is one sweet line, oompa...I gots ta try that on my wife.
"bye honey, have a good meeting."....hell yes part of me is sad when she goes, but she is going less!
I know what you mean. I'm having the same effect on my wife.
TBTS, I feel for ya. I stopped field service because I could not bring myself to give my endorsement to the society's teachings (they claim they are God's teachings and not man's, but who are they fooling with that one?) and try to recruit people to come to my hall. It's a disgusting prospect.
Too many times have doctrines changed (call it bullshit, call it new light, same thing) and people have left the organization. The remainders just shrug and have a pity party with themselves that there were so many "weak" ones who left and that they "must not have really had the truth."
But then they keep ya hooked with the shunning policy that threatens to effectively kill off your family and friends network.
I try to take comfort in the thought that if God exists, and if he is truly just, that eventually the head honchos in the watchtower society and in all the manmade religions of the world will get what is coming to them for all the pain and suffering they've caused to those of us who want to live an honest life and be good people.
Hang in there, TBTS!
oompa

Still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at Climax study that I DEMAND that you post your observations post bookstudy every week! That was great, and I just have not been able to make myself go with my wife ON SATURDAY MORNINGS anymore. Would you mind posting just the page numbers?
that was great....oompa
White Dove

I'll join you in the puke fest
SacrificialLoon

When one wakes up from their stupor and realizes that it is all a sham a lot will wonder how is it that they can see and yet everyone else does not? Remember that you were once like them, too, stuck inside the box of Watchtower dogma. Unable to "think outside the box" you were once a prisoner just like them. Maybe what snapped you out of your stupor might only make another seek the safety of watchtower dogma if forced upon them.

Just because we were lucky enough to have a eureka moment, or maybe a slow cascade of things that led us to realize what the WBTS is doesn't necessarily make us better than those still on the inside. We're still fallible human beings just like those nodding their heads at the meetings. I think that if one starts feeling too superior then one becomes vulnerable again, pride comes before a fall and all that.

I think that rather than ask "why is it that we can see so clearly what the Watchtower Society really is all about while the die hard witnesses think that the governing body is the direct mouth piece of God ", I think it'd be better to ask "How did I see the WTBS before I realized it all to be wrong?", and you'll have the answer to the first question.
still_in74

Still_in74 you have so much passion for truth at Climax study that I DEMAND that you post your observations post bookstudy every week!
LOL !! Yes lately I have been on a rant about the Rev book, its just so amazingly filled with unsubstantiated speculations. Some paragraphs are completely without scriptures to support major interpretations of prophecy!!!
read my last post on the rev book http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/141196/2530958/post.ashx#2530958
This goes into detail about Rutherford and 1919 and the 144k and the sealing and the 30 min of silence and the prayers and the killing and the oy vay rivem clavin!! (the nerd scientist from Simpsons impersonation - sorry, couldnt resist!)
As for my rant about the seven trumpet blasts it is Chapter 21 of the book.
Chapter 21
Jehovah’s Plagues on Christendom

10
John goes on to say: "And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them."(Revelation8:6)What does the blowing of those trumpets mean? In the days of Israel, trumpet blasts were used to signal important days or noteworthy events. (Leviticus 23:24; 2 Kings 11:14) Similarly, the blasts of the trumpets that John is to hear will call attention to matters of life-and-death importance.
11
As the angels got ready to blow those trumpets, no doubt they were also giving direction to a preparatory work on earth. From 1919 to 1922, the revitalized John class was busy in reorganizing the public ministry and building up publishing facilities. In 1919 the magazine TheGoldenAge, known today as Awake!, had been brought forth as "A Journal of Fact, Hope, and Conviction"—a trumpetlike instrument that would play a key role in exposing false religion’s political involvements.
13
As we shall see, when the first four trumpets are blown, plagues are inflicted on "a third" of the earth, of the sea, of the rivers and fountains of waters, and of the earth’s sources of light. (Revelation 8:7-12) A third is a considerable part of something but not the whole. (Compare Isaiah 19:24; Ezekiel 5:2; Zechariah 13:8, 9.) So which "third" would be most deserving of these plagues? The vast majority of mankind has been blinded and corrupted by Satan and his seed. (Genesis 3:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4) The situation is as described by David: "They have all turned aside, they are all alike corrupt; there is no one doing good, not even one." (Psalm 14:3) Yes, the whole of mankind is in danger of receiving an adverse judgment. But one section thereof is particularly guilty. One part—"a third"—should have known better! What is that "third"?
14
It is Christendom! In the 1920’s, her realm embraced about one third of mankind. Her religion is the fruit of the great apostasy from true Christianity—the apostasy that Jesus and his disciples foretold. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 2 Peter 2:1-3) The clergy of Christendom claim to be in God’s temple and have represented themselves as teachers of Christianity. But their doctrines are far removed from Bible truth, and they continually bring God’s name into disrepute. Aptly represented by the symbolic third, Christendom receives potent, plaguing messages from Jehovah. That third of mankind merits no divine favor whatsoever!
15
In line with there being a sequence of trumpet blasts, special resolutions were featured at seven conventions from 1922 to 1928. But the trumpeting has not been confined to those years. The powerful exposing of Christendom’s wicked ways has been continuous, ongoing, as the Lord’s day progresses. Jehovah’s judgments must be proclaimed universally, to all nations, despite international hatred and persecutions. Only then does the end of Satan’s system come. (Mark 13:10, 13) Happily, the great crowd has now added its voice to that of the John class in making those thunderous pronouncements of worldwide importance.A Third of the Earth Burned Up
16
Reporting on the angels, John writes: "And the first one blew his trumpet. And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up."(Revelation8:7) This is similar to the seventh plague on Egypt, but what does it mean for our time?—Exodus 9:24.
17 In the Bible, the word "earth" often refers to mankind. (Genesis 11:1; Psalm 96:1) Since the second plague is on the sea, which also has to do with mankind, "the earth" must refer to the seemingly stable human society that Satan has built up and that is due to be destroyed. (2 Peter 3:7; Revelation 21:1) The plague scenario reveals that Christendom’s third of the earth is scorched by the searing heat of Jehovah’s disapproval. Her prominent ones—standing like trees in the midst of her—are burned up by the proclaiming of Jehovah’s adverse judgment. All her hundreds of millions of church members, if they continue to support Christendom’s religion, become like scorched blades of grass, spiritually wilted in God’s eyes.—Compare Psalm 37:1, 2.
18 How is this judgment message delivered? Generally, not by the world’s news media, which are part of the world and often reproachful of God’s "slave." (Matthew 24:45) It was proclaimed in a notable way at the second historic gathering of God’s people at Cedar Point, Ohio, September 10, 1922. These unanimously and enthusiastically adopted a resolution entitled "A Challenge to World Leaders." In outspoken terms, it put the modern-day symbolic earth on notice, as follows: "We therefore call upon the nations of earth, their rulers and leaders, and upon all the clergymen of all the denominational churches of earth, their followers and allies, big business and big politicians, to bring forth their proof in justification of the position taken by them that they can establish peace and prosperity on earth and bring happiness to the people; and their failing in this, we call upon them to give ear to the testimony that we offer as witnesses for the Lord, and then let them say whether or not our testimony is true."
20 Through resolutions, tracts, booklets, books, magazines, and discourses, this and later proclamations were trumpeted forth by means of the congregation of anointed Christians. The first trumpet blast resulted in Christendom’s being beaten as with the hardened water of a pounding hail. Her bloodguilt, due to her share in the wars of the 20th century, has been laid bare, and she has been shown to be deserving of the fiery expression of Jehovah’s wrath. The John class, with later support from the great crowd, has continued to echo the first trumpet blast, drawing attention to Jehovah’s view of Christendom, as being fit for destruction.—Revelation 7:9, 15.Like a Burning Mountain
21 "And the second angel blew his trumpet. And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of these became blood; and a third of the creatures that are in these a which have souls died, and a third of the boats were wrecked."(Revelation8:8,9) What does this frightful scene picture?
22 We may best understand it against the background of the convention of Jehovah’s people held in Los Angeles, California, U.S.A., on August 18-26, 1923. The featured Saturday afternoon talk by J. F. Rutherford was on the topic "Sheep and Goats." The "sheep" were clearly identified as those righteously disposed persons who would inherit the earthly realm of God’s Kingdom. A resolution that followed drew attention to the hypocrisy of "apostate clergymen and ‘the principal of their flocks,’ who are worldly men of strong financial and political influence." It called on the "multitude of the peace and order loving ones in the denominational churches . . . to withdraw themselves from the unrighteous ecclesiastical systems designated by the Lord as ‘Babylon’" and to ready themselves "to receive the blessings of God’s kingdom."
23 Doubtless, this resolution came as a result of the sounding of the second trumpet. Those who would in due course respond to that message would separate from those described by Isaiah in these words: "But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire." (Isaiah 57:20; 17:12, 13) Thus, "the sea" well pictures restless, unsettled, and rebellious humanity that churns up unrest and revolution. (Compare Revelation 13:1.) The time will come when that "sea" will be no more. (Revelation 21:1) Meantime, with the blast of the second trumpet, Jehovah pronounces judgment against a third of it—the unruly part that is in the realm of Christendom herself.
24 A great mountainlike mass burning with fire is hurled into this "sea." In the Bible, mountains very often symbolize governments. For example, God’s Kingdom is portrayed as a mountain. (Daniel 2:35, 44) Ruinous Babylon became a "burnt-out mountain." (Jeremiah 51:25) But the mountainous mass that John sees is still burning. Its being hurled into the sea well represents how, during and after the first world war, the question of government became a burning issue among mankind, especially in the lands of Christendom. In Italy, Mussolini introduced Fascism. Germany embraced Hitler’s Nazism, while other countries tried different forms of socialism. A radical change occurred in Russia, where the Bolshevik revolution produced the first Communist state, with the result that religious leaders of Christendom lost power and influence in what was formerly one of their strongholds.
25 The Fascist and Nazi experiments were snuffed out by the second world war, but government continued to be a fiery issue, and the human sea continued to churn and throw up new revolutionary governments. In the decades following 1945, these were installed in many places, such as China, Vietnam, Cuba, and Nicaragua. In Greece an experiment in military dictatorship failed. In Kampuchea (Cambodia) an excursion into fundamentalist Communism resulted in a reported two million and more deaths.
26 That "mountain burning with fire" continued to make waves in the sea of mankind. Struggles over government have been reported in Africa, the Americas, Asia, and the Pacific islands. Many of these struggles have taken place in lands of Christendom or where Christendom’s missionaries have become activists. Roman Catholic priests even joined up with and fought as members of Communist guerrilla bands. At the same time, Protestant evangelical groups worked in Central America to counter what they called the Communists’ "vicious and relentless thirst for power." But none of these convulsions in the sea of mankind have brought peace and security.—Compare Isaiah 25:10-12; 1 Thessalonians 5:3.
27 The second trumpet blast reveals that those of mankind who got involved in revolutionary conflicts over government rather than submit to God’s Kingdom are bloodguilty. Particularly Christendom’s "third of the sea" has become as blood. All living things therein are dead in God’s eyes. None of the radical organizations floating like boats in that third of the sea can avoid ultimate shipwreck. How happy we are that millions of sheeplike people have now heeded the trumpetlike call to separate from those who are still wallowing in the narrow nationalism and bloodguilt of that sea!A Star Falls From Heaven
28 "And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters,because these had been made bitter."(Revelation8:10,11) Once again, other parts of the Bible help us to see how this scripture applies in the Lord’s day.
There is much more but that will be in another thread. I will make a weekly commentary!! Your request (demand) has been granted!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4digitcode

"When I think back in time when I had family studies with my children and wife, and I was an elder, I often thought that something just doesn't feel right about what I believe. When a visting Bethel elder told me in confidence some of the things that were taking place in Bethel (in the 80's) I guess that was the beginning of my desire to learn more of what was really going on in Brooklyn. Once you begin to learn the truth about the truth you can not stop learning as you see your believe system unravel, your hopes for the "very near future" go up in flames, and the wasted years and marred childhood from being a JW pass before your eyes. It is painful and yet it feels good to be free or almost free."

i totally understand what you mean!!! that's how most of us feel i think. i didn't think you were head of a family, i thought you still were at home with mom and dad!!lol.

i felt that something wasn't right too but i had no information to back that feeling so i thought it was just me.

one of the replies was to 'not feel superior because we were in that situation' and while i agree with you, i just can't believe that i'm a 1 in a million that wouldn't have shunned my friends if they ever got out, only one of them talks to me now...and i feel llike she's a 1 in a million too.

we were all jehovah's witnesses and we all thought the same but i feel that everyone still came into the religion with their own personality. did i start feeling ill because i resisted the brainwashing so to speak? or is their a common denominator among most recruits that make them good material for this religion?

TBTS take it easy and remember that at least you know what the truth of teh matter is. and that's a great advantage already for you and your whole family even if it doesn't seem that way now.

How bad can it get?

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