We're here so that God has somebody to kill at Armageddon. Didn't you ever fry insects in a magnifying glass when you were younger? It was so cool! That's what Armageddon is for God.
Christians: Why are we here (earth) in the first place?
by Awakened07 20 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Satanus
Like the jaguar said. Some spirits incarnate for reasons of their own - to learn, to develop, to have an adventure. After one incarnation, if things are left undone/unpaid, another incarnation is aoften necesary to finis/pay/balance things. After a while, things can get complicated. Purposes for being here can be really simple or really complex. There is no one purpose for all.
S
-
Lloyd Braun
Exactly what proof do we have that there are "angels" in the ways men think of them? I think all angels are just an extension of God's being. 1 Kings 22 makes it pretty clear that angels in Heaven are capable of deceitful things in the will of God.
Matt -
AlphaOmega
My take on it...
I will fit this analogy around the angel/us/good/bad/heaven/earth idea - but I don't see it as this literal, and I see this happening INSIDE him.
In the beginning God was (maybe not HIS beginning, but for the purposes of this, it was OUR beginning, he may even have his own "God" to worry about).
We are told by some psychologists, that we only experience ourselves in relation to other people. (think about that for a while - how would you KNOW yourself - if not for your experiences of,and reactions to, the life around you) ?
So... God WAS.
Was WHAT ?
There was no-one around for God to "relate" to. He couldn't EXPERIENCE but he could KNOW.
So in order to experience, he created the angels. He bounced a few ideas off them, but it was like looking in a mirror - they were just "good", so he let some be the opposite of "good" - he made them "bad".
So now he had a contrast to work with - he could bounce his thoughts off the good ones and the bad ones.
BUT... there was a problem - he knew which were which - he knew what to expect from each "group" of angels, not much of a relationship with a robotic angel...
SO, he made us, with the CAPACITY (un-used) to be "good" and "bad", then he allowed us to go and "be".
Obviously we chose not to be robots and we reached out and milked the "Eden" experience for whatever it had to offer including "the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil", so now were able to EXPERIENCE both "dark and light".
We are just doing what we saw him doing - "knowing both Good and Evil" - not really fallen, more "awakened".
God "IS", he does not "experience", he just "knows, is etc"
As all of this is happening inside of him, we constantly "feed back" what these experiences are like, giving him the opportunity to taste those experiences for himself through our actions.
-
Awakened07
Terry wrote:
I remember suddenly having an epiphany when I realized that "Christianity" is not a single, monolithic thing.
It is many things defined and practiced many ways; most of which are mutually exclusive to each other!
I initially didn't get exactly what you were saying in your post Terry, but after the (few) Christians here had replied, I understood.
I genuinely have always wanted this question answered, but I think perhaps my "definition" (or view) of what a 'Christian' is and what they believe was wrong.
To make an analogy:
Reading the replies, I feel like I was once the owner of a gasoline-driven car with a V8 engine, but there's something that's been bugging me about how the carburetor of other types of cars work, and I go online and ask "Car owners: describe how your carburetor works." and the kind of reply I get is: "Well, I've only had two cars; the first was direct fuel injection and the other was electric, so I don't think carburetors have anything to do with cars. Anyway, the fuel injection on my gasoline-driven car works like this:....." I expected owners of older, gasoline-driven cars with a carburetor to reply, and those were the people I wanted an answer from, but it turns out cars "ain't what they used to be", and my definition of a 'car owner' (or a car) was wrong.
OK - making good analogies in a hurry is hard...
I guess the kind of Christian I was addressing was the likes of a pastor in an episcopalian church, or priest in a catholic or protestant church, or... But not the 'modern' kind of Christian, where reincarnation, pre-earth life as spirit-beings etc. are "allowed".
So now I'm afraid I'll never get the question answered (by the kind of Christian I was expecting to reply). Can't really ask a question to 'Christians' and expect to get one answer when each and every one has their own opinion of the core beliefs.
But maybe that (the myriad of views) is a good thing? Growing up a JW, differing opinions was never a good thing. I don't know.
I think the premise was quite simple; angels exist, mankind becomes angels, therefore, what's the point in some being born and die here first before becoming an angel. Is this a premise that would be faulty to all Christians?
I did expect it to be easily answered, because - as I saw it - this must be something that has been resolved by Christianity several hundred years ago, since it's such an obvious (to me, at least) "strangeness", and perhaps contradiction. Which is why I called it a banal question.
-
Gregor
A peculiar conundrum, no? - Terry
I hear that the peculiar ones sell better than the plain ones.
-
bebu
mankind becomes angels
Actually, Jesus said that the resurrected would become LIKE the angels, who do not marry--he was answering a question about resurrection and marriage, not trying to describe purposes.
I look around and see that there are many types of animals in this world, and many varieties inside each specy. The Bible actually lists several types of angels, and I imagine the list is not exhaustive.
I think the creation of man is unique. Our capacity to 'hold' the Divine is even greater than the angels, I think, because of the gift of Christ, who is considered worthy of all that God is worthy of. This is difficult to grasp because it is staggering. Likewise staggering, angels are called servants; the redeemed (an innumerable crowd) are called heirs with Christ.
bebu
-
AGuest
May you have peace!
My apologies for responding to the wrong question (i.e., your title question as opposed to your content question). If I may, I'd like to respond to the latter. Thank you!
Dear Bebu is correct in that earthling man is unique, but only as to his form: we are, in fact spirit beings bound in physical flesh (i.e. with hemoglobin as its blood), as opposed to spiritual flesh (with holy spirit as its blood). But we are not angels nor will we ever be. As Bebu said, angels are servants, created to minister to God... and to His sons. We... are sons. Angels were created first... to minister to God's Son by His "free" wife, Sarah... the spirit realm. Because that Son has chosen to share his inheritance with us... they are our ministers also.
Angels are created directly; they have no mother. Sons... are conceived... in the womb of a mother, from the seed of a mother, fertilized by the seed of a father...and then born. While we have earthly (physical) mothers, these were only surrogates, really, for the purpose of bringing forth our fleshly vessels, which we inherited from Adam.
Our TRUE mother, however, is God's "free" wife, Sarah, the spirit realm. In her womb... the Ark... we once were... as seed. When enemies of that seed were found existing in the spirit realm, we were placed here... in Adam... as treasure hidden in an earthen vessel... until such time as we could be fertilized and conceived as spirit beings. Unfortunately, Adam SOLD US TO OUR ENEMY... Death... before such conception could take place. He gave OUR lives... for his... (which is why Christ gave HIS life... for ours... to buy us back!). As a result, Death became our "father," by means of his chief agent, our Adversary, Satan.
Through Christ, however, the seed that we are, existing inside the vessel of flesh... can STILL become fertilized by God's spirit, so as to become a NEW creation. As such, we who have been so "conceived" are awaiting a releasing from that which imprisons and enslaves us... flesh with its blood... and a putting on of the NEW body, the SPIRIT body... with holy spirit as its blood... which we receive from our TRUE Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... by means of HIS Chieft Agent, Christ.
There are only three types of angels: cherubim, nephilim and evangelim. ALL of these are seraphs (i.e., flying, fiery, winged flesh-eating beings) as are JAH, the Christ... and inside the flesh that imprisons us... we.
It is the lack of understanding of this truth that caused the misleading teaching that angels have wings like birds: the flying, flesh-eating part was misunderstood to mean something like an eagle or hawk, etc. The TRUTH is that they are like dragons: flying, fiery, winged and flesh-eating reptilians. Even JAH. Their wings do NOT have feathers on them, rather, they are more like that of gargoyles (though not exactly; they are MUCH more magnificent!).
The "flesh" that they eat is what allows them to live without dying; it is the same 'flesh" that WE are to eat in order to live forever: the "leaves" of the Tree of Life, the "manna" and "bread from heaven"... the flesh of the Christ. That is what spirit beings eat to live and as long as they eat, they cannot be destroyed; those that have been "cut off" from eating, however, will one day be weakened so that they, Magog, can and will be destroyed by fire. For spirits do not die; they can only be destroyed by fire.
For US... our mortal bodies will die. But it is not our flesh with its blood that we are supposed to be trying to preserve: the flesh... is of NO USE at all. It is our SPIRITS that we are supposed to be trying to preserve - that is what Satan was after when he spoke to Eve. Our IMMORTAL lives. And if we do NOT eat... we, too, will grow weak and be susceptible to destruction. It doesn't have to be that way, however, for my Lord holds out his life-giving flesh, his "bread" from heaven... to ALL... so that ANYONE who eats of it WILL live forever and, if necessary, be resurrected at the last day.
We are not angels, nor will we ever be. That are not "men"... whether earthly or heavenly... and never will be. But we, all of us... are spirit beings... whether we exist in spirit bodies that are free... or earthly bodies that are enslaved. What we are OUTSIDE has nothing to do with what we are INSIDE.
I bid you peace... and ears to hear what the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, by which we are conceived and BORN AGAIN, and which is poured out by His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... FREE!"
A slave of Christ,
SA
-
AGuest
God created a myriad of angels in Heaven before He created our universe and earth, right?
Yes.
-And - except for those who rebelled - they are all still up there, right?
No. There are three groups:
1. Those who forsake their dwelling place (the spirit realm) during Noah's day - These were confined by the flood and are reserved in the pit of the abyss until their destruction.
2. Those who forsake their dwelling place after Noah's day - These had access to both the spiritual and physical realm, but because of their sin could not put on and put off flesh as they used to, nor could they reflect God's glory any longer. As a result, they could only manifest themselves through other living entities (i.e., humans, animals, plants); they . My Lord cast them into swine, which went into the sea, so that they are now confined in the pit of the abyss as are those above. ("And Satan took his station right along with them.")
3. Those who fought with Satan against Michael and were hurled down - These are restricted from reentering the spirit realm; however, they have full access to the physical realm ("Woe to you, earth, for the Devil has come down to you!")
-And - when a human being dies, he/she either goes to Heaven, or Hell, right
No. When a human dies, he/she goes to one of two places:
1. If he/she belongs to the Christ, he/she goes "under the altar", a place of protection from God. There, their spirits are protected from their enemies until such time as they are resurrected into spirit bodies. While there, their spirits sleep, but not completely: from time to time they awaken, not enought to return to life, but enough to be "conscious" of a few things... there... and here.
2. If he/she does not belong to the Christ, he/she goes to the world of the dead, Sheol/Hades. There is no protection from enemies there; however, these, too, will be resurrected, for there is to be a resurrection of the righteous AND the unrighteous... meaning, a resurrection of ALL. Some to life... some to judgment. While there, their spirits sleep... virtually completely... but not absolutely. They are "conscious" of nothing; however, they are not completely out; there is a flicker of life... but not enough to be "conscious" of anything... there... or here.
I bid you peace and hope this helps anwer your questions.
A slave of Christ,
SA
-
journey-on
AGuest
Most interesting. Would you please elaborate on this:
It is the lack of understanding of this truth that caused the misleading teaching that angels have wings like birds: the flying, flesh-eating part was misunderstood to mean something like an eagle or hawk, etc. The TRUTH is that they are like dragons: flying, fiery, winged and flesh-eating reptilians. Even JAH. Their wings do NOT have feathers on them, rather, they are more like that of gargoyles (though not exactly; they are MUCH more magnificent!).
The "flesh" that they eat is what allows them to live without dying; it is the same 'flesh" that WE are to eat in order to live forever: the "leaves" of the Tree of Life, the "manna" and "bread from heaven"... the flesh of the Christ. That is what spirit beings eat to live and as long as they eat, they cannot be destroyed; those that have been "cut off" from eating, however, will one day be weakened so that they, Magog, can and will be destroyed by fire. For spirits do not die; they can only be destroyed by fire.
Journey-on