JIG:
Boy, did you ever post on the wrong site! You should really have taken a look around before you tried your Kirk Cameron routine on us! Kirk sounds impressive confronting street punks, but put him and his Englishman clone on stage with a couple of knowledgable atheists and he gets his ass handed to him (sort of like you are on this thread) and comes off sounding like the ignorant, self-righteous little Bible-thumper he really is.
So, if I get this straight, you were this guilt-ridden 25-year-old who read a 2000 year old book of mythology, thought it was real, had some sort of self-induced mystical experience, and now you've become an insufferable, but saved, bore out to save the rest of us pathetic souls.
Whoa, thanks for sharing - as though we haven't heard that same sad song and dance a thousand times before.
We might have believed at one time, as you still do, that the Bible is this harmonious book of capital-t Truth, but few of us still do. We left all that behind when it dawned on us that in fact the Bible is such a mish-mash of nonsense, myth, quasi-history and outright insane ramblings that 100 people can read it and get 100 different versions of The Truth - and ALL of them, just like you, will think all the rest are full of shit and ONLY THEY have THE REAL TRUTH.
You sad, sad, guilt ridden, little spiritual tyrant.
Go get a healthy dose of skepticism, rationality, critical thinking skills and some genuine education. Then re-read your holy book.
After that come back and talk to us again, and maybe you'll actually be able to answer some of these questions instead of preaching at us. Do you really think that the Bible telling us that Jesus was resurrected which proves the Bible is true which proves that Jesus was resurrected PROVES ANYTHING?? Christ man, get a brain!
The evidence that Jesus even existed is nearly non-existent, and any proof that he was actually resurrected is completely non-existent! If he did at one time exist, he disappeared 2000 years ago, and we haven't heard a peep from him since!
S4
Are you a good person? Take the Bible challenge.
by jesusisgod 149 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Seeker4
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serotonin_wraith
http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/tencommandments.html
That's a good page to look at to see the contradictions regarding the Ten Commandments. If there was one definitive set, different religions wouldn't be following different versions of the Ten Commandments.
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Rabbit
JesusIsGod...I am so glad the voices you heard in your head made you feel so "Special." A regular "church lady." It must be a "special" feeling indeed to have all those terrible 'sins' lifted from your shoulders. Good for you. I would imagine the terrible guilt you were carrying was a terrible burden. That would be awful on your mental health.
I am sincerely glad you are feeling 'much better now.'
After believing the Bible as a JW for over 35 years, then leaving, I have no belief that the Bible is God's word. But, you do and I respect that you have that right.
So, answer me this: Assuming the Bible IS God's Word...why did He think it was justice to punish all the descendants (that would be us) of Adam & Eve...for their 'sins' ?
Whatever 'sinful' condition you think humans are in right now, are the result of GOD'S DOING ! When Adam & Eve were chased out of Paradise...something obviously had to change in their 'perfect' DNA in order for 'us' to result. GOD...is responsible for all of the human condition, imperfection, sickness and death. No matter how much you will want to blame Satan or Adam & Eve...GOD (according to your Bible) was the judge, who past judgment and punished billions of innocent people for the actions of their fruit stealing ancestors.
There's something very sick & un-loving about a human or even a god... that would punish innocent people.
Rabbit
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jesusisgod
Rabbit,
Hello. I hope I can answer your question. Your question seems to have some different ideas mixed together so I will do my best to explain.
First, God bringing judgment on all Adam and Eve's descendents isn't entirely accurate. Why? If God brought judgment on all of us we would all be going to hell, we'd all be eternally separated from God. But judgment against sin for all believers fell on Christ. Thats why the Bible said, "Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1). Like if you owed a billion dollar fine and you simply cannot pay it, either you pay the fine or do the time, yet if someone else steps in to pay your fine for you then justice is met by the fine being paid and you can go free. This is what Messiah has done and its a free gift of God, not of works we can do. People show they are the people of God by receiving the one who stepped into time and space to pay our fine of sin. So God's judgment against every human being for sin isn't completely accurate.
Two, let me sum up your second point. "God created evil humanity or evil but judges us for our evil. This is unloving and sick." I see a problem or misconception about humanity, God and evil in your question. Please don't take this to heart. First, when God made Adam and Eve, He had made them good, and had given them the ability of free choice. Without free choice humans would be mere puppets or robots awaiting every command. Second and thirdly, God is not the author of evil, He allowed for the potential for evil. Adam and Eve's free will would not have truly been free if their was no potential for evil.
Next, "innocent people" according to the Bible as you may already be aware there is none good, no not one, there is none who seeks after God. We have all sinned and fall short of God's standard of goodness. What standard are you applying in saying there are innocent people? If all humanity is guilty of sin against God then none of us are innocent. If we were innocent and God judged us then yes he would be unjust. I dont believe this is the case though.
Finally, Adam and Eve did chose to sin against God. And as a result their offspring did inherit their sinful nature. And we sin everyday, maybe not taking the fruit of the forbidden tree but in other ways. We willingly rebel against our creator. When God confronted Adam about eating the forbidden fruit, "Why have you done this?" He played the blame game and blamed his wife. Then Eve played along and blamed the serpent. Who's fault was it in the garden? Adam and Eve's! Are you going to continue playing this blame game also? Has anyone made you lie? Steal? Not love God? Not love your fellow man made in God's image? Blame yourself. If you come to a place that you understand that you sin willingly against God and you are responsible for your sins to God, then God's true love for you may make more sense. How much does God love you and desire that you come to a place of repentance? God demonstrated His love toward you that while you were a sinner Christ died for you. God love for you and God's love for justice is both demonstrated on the cross.
Robin
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jesusisgod
Seeker4,
May I ask you a question? You said, "We might have believed at one time, as you still do..."
So I will assume you once professed to be a Christian? Let me ask you, did you know the Lord?
Robin
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parakeet
jesusisgod wrote: "The fisherman continues on trying to reach one person who would listen, who would willingly stop and consider what he was saying. The fisherman's attitute to warn others was out of love and compassion.....This is an example of the attitude all genuine believers have for the lost"
If you've ever read Dickens' "David Copperfield," you will come across a character named Uriah Heep. Study this character carefully -- you may learn something about yourself. -
Rabbit
JIG
First, God bringing judgment on all Adam and Eve's descendents isn't entirely accurate. Why? If God brought judgment on all of us we would all be going to hell, we'd all be eternally separated from God. So God's judgment against every human being for sin isn't completely accurate.Use your smoke screen somewhere else. You know I was talking about the immediate result of their punishment. God was the judge, prosecutor & jury. His warning to Adam & Eve, about dying "in the day" they ate the fruit, was a lie. The 2nd lie was Adam & Eve weren't told that it wasn't just them, as the guilty party, that would get punished, get sick & die, but, every man, woman & child since then.
Two, let me sum up your second point. "God created evil humanity or evil but judges us for our evil. This is unloving and sick." I see a problem or misconception about humanity, God and evil in your question. Please don't take this to heart.
Please allow me to sum up my own points. If A & E were perfect they had a much bigger advantage over any of their offspring...and they failed a simple 'Fruit Stealing' test. God, imho, has proved His own evil by his murderous rages throughout the history of His Book. It also says, He drowned almost every living thing in Noah's day. Now, He's planning on an even bigger bloodbath in the future. This god is blood thirsty. You think He'll feel "regret" and say He'll "never do it again" like He did after the Flood ?
Here is my idea of what would have been a lot fairer to the folks who never had a chance to take the infamous "Fruit" test: Adam & Eve could have been executed, then, God could have created Ricky & Lucy, if they messed up...Will & Grace...etc. That way billions of people who weren't perfect or in a paradise could take their very own "Fruit" test, instead of being punished for something they had no part of -- that's what innocent means.
When God confronted Adam about eating the forbidden fruit, "Why have you done this?" He played the blame game and blamed his wife. Then Eve played along and blamed the serpent. Who's fault was it in the garden? Adam and Eve's! Are you going to continue playing this blame game also? Has anyone made you lie? Steal? Not love God? Not love your fellow man made in God's image? Blame yourself.
You've probably forgotten...I don't accept the Bible or any other writings as a gods 'word'. Therefore, I do assign all blame to myself, if I harm another person thru my own actions. I don't need a god to do that.
Rabbit
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jesusisgod
Rabbit,
I guess your mind is made up already. I would disagree though.
If it hadnt been A&E it would have been Jack & Jill who would have eaten. I mean you can makeup whatever hypothesis or alternative solution. Would God not have known best? God being omniscient, knowing the future also before it happens, did He somehow not know what is best?
And why do you think its a lie that A&E dying in that day they ate the forbidden fruit? Why do you call it a lie? Because you don't believe it or they didn't age then die? Also tell me why you think they didn't know about death coming to all their descendents? Are you assuming this or are you reading a passage of the Bible?
Robin
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jesusisgod
Parakeet,
Are you judging me? You disagree with what I have said, which is fine, we can agree to disagree. Don't know presume to know my own heart, only God knows that friend. Next, Uriah Heep in the book had a quest for power, weath and the hand of Agnes, daughter of Mr. Wickfield. He ruined lives and in the end gets justice. Good book.
I have a book for you to look into, its called Pilgrams Progress. Its a classic.
Robin
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Lloyd Braun
To quote Ralph Wiggum...
"What's a battle?"
Lloyd