by Frjprice 108 Replies latest jw friends
Wecome to the forum
Don't want to be negative and untrusting but, being raised a JW I do have issues. anyway ............
How is it you're a priest at 21 years of age?
Training
Men exclusively are ordained as priests. Women may serve in church positions that do not require priestly ordination. Preparation for the priesthood generally requires 8 years of study beyond high school, usually including a college degree followed by 4 or more years of theology study at a seminary.
Im still trying to figure out why you went from being a JW to your current belief system. If you left the witnesses, then you are no doubt a researcher. It doesnt take much research to uncover a mountain of problems with the catholic beliefs, and tainted history. It seems to me that the Catholic belief system and practices, are primarily geared to control ignorant people and keep them in line. No offense please! Maybe im wrong, so please correct me. My first thoughts are that your either gay looking for acceptance.(which is fine!) Or that you like the feeling of power over people, and you like the authority that the term priest brings with it, in the eyes of the flock. You are way to young to be a real, recognized priest in any catholic faith, and I know that I could never respect any 21 year kid counseling me on marriage, kids etc.. Im sure that im confused and misled so please help me understand and clear up any misunderstandings. Thank you.
How is it you're a priest at 21 years of age?
I graduated hs from american school when I turned 16, left the JW's at 17. I went to ohio tech and got a degree in automotive at 18 1/2, enrolled in the old catholic seminary, based on previous theological knowlege the bishop I was currently under cut alot of my training at his discression. I had to change my thinking on some theology, take liturgical classes, history of the church, catechesis, homiletics, ect. and was ordained at 21 and 8 months on aug. 11th.
Im still trying to figure out why you went from being a JW to your current belief system. If you left the witnesses, then you are no doubt a researcher. It doesnt take much research to uncover a mountain of problems with the catholic beliefs, and tainted history. It seems to me that the Catholic belief system and practices, are primarily geared to control ignorant people and keep them in line. No offense please! Maybe im wrong, so please correct me. My first thoughts are that your either gay looking for acceptance.(which is fine!) Or that you like the feeling of power over people, and you like the authority that the term priest brings with it, in the eyes of the flock. You are way to young to be a real, recognized priest in any catholic faith, and I know that I could never respect any 21 year kid counseling me on marriage, kids etc.. Im sure that im confused and misled so please help me understand and clear up any misunderstandings. Thank you.
No offense taken, I have found no problems with the catholic belief system, everything makes perfict sense and can be proven, as it has been for 2000 years, thats why I'm catholic. As to why I chose to pursue the priesthood, my spiritual director thought that, through our conversations I was called to the priesthood, I agreed, so he recommended me to the office of vocations, after several interviews they recommended to the archbishop that I be considered for seminary, the rest is above.
I am a Catholic too I think. Doesn't my avatar look like monk?
lol...lots to confess too....oompa
to be honest youre avatar gives me the creeps, Mary Feldman is it... strange face, but probably a nice bloke, but still wierd.
Welcome Father Price! My brother is also ex-JW (as I am). He is 23 and currently in the Seminary for the priesthood. I am also moving towards Catholicism. We look forward to communicting with you! BurnTheShips
Eeesh. I just figured this is not real Catholic.
No offense taken, I have found no problems with the catholic belief system, everything makes perfict sense and can be proven, as it has been for 2000 years, thats why I'm catholic. As to why I chose to pursue the priesthood, my spiritual director thought that, through our conversations I was called to the priesthood, I agreed, so he recommended me to the office of vocations, after several interviews they recommended to the archbishop that I be considered for seminary, the rest is above.
There are many problems with the "catholic" (universal) belief system. Not everything makes "perfect sense". Not all can be "proven" anymore about any religious institution.
Mr. Price, there are a lot of things that I don't know about God, but there are definitely also a few things I do know, and one of those things is that he is not found in any religious institution. People do not need human intercessors between themselves and God. People do not need "training" or to go "under the wing" of some other person based on what that person thinks, unless they are planning to become a craftsman, doctor, or what not. When it comes to God, we are all given our own consciences and we are each free to decide what and how we feel about God, and we are all free to choose how we address God.
It's about FREEDOM, Mr. Price, from ALL religious authority and control of systems that want things done their way. IF a person has a bible and reads it and chooses to apply things in their lives personally, they will eventually realize what they are really supposed to do in life. The whole point in having a bible in mass print is so that each person who possesses one can read it for themself, in their own free time.
I would like to ask you, Mr. Price, two major theological questions from the bible that don't exactly seem to fit that statement you made. Once again, nothing personal, just trying to open a door to something you may have missed in all that research you did before deciding to jump on another religious bandwagon.
You are titling yourself "Father" and people are expected to call you by that title, right? But clearly Yeshua of Nazareth gave specific Rabbinic instructions not to address any human being by that pious title. Not to be confused with a person who calls his dad "father" in a paternal genetic sense, but specifically dealing with teachers, he made this statement:
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.Mat 23:9And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.Mat 23:10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ.
It really is difficult to miss this, asit is specfically clear what was being taught and refuted by Yeshua here in this entire dialogue. One of his fancies, was to rebuke the religious Elders of the Pharisaic tribes of Judah/Benjamin in his day. Yeshua of course was a Jew you know, and he knew the Torah well before he was executed for his knowledge of it.
My second question, Mr. Price regards the following statement on your church's website:
The fee for each program is $50.00 and $25 for the
framed certificate (which includes shipping and handling
charges).
To start your biblical studies, please contact us via email
as to which course you would like to study and we will
issue you the materials needed via email.
Once again, the bible has something to say about this sort of thing as well:
(Mat 10:8)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give.(Rom 8:32)
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?(Rev 21:6)
And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.I really don't see how you can ask people to blindly pay money to study what your religion is teaching, unless of course there is one major thing I have not considered... Is your church even bible based in any way?
This is of course one strategy of the WTBS that I at least did like about them. There are many truths that can still be filtered through some of the discoveries that they made. They just really bit the bullet on a lot of things. But I know in my heart that there is no Trinity, no immortality of the soul, and I know now that there is still a coming Kingdom of God to this Earth, and that this place will eventually change for the better. It has to, if the God of love is really a God of love.
So Mr. Price, what exactly is your real agenda for us? I only ask that those of you who are offended at my responses in this post to please bare with me on all things here. I am only asking this because I think that there should always be an outspoken voice who questions people and things immediately, to see what their intentions are. Also, there is a chance for some of us who know that Mr. Price is obviously in another control group, to free him from that one.
The irony here is that we may be able to help you more than you can help us. I am not sure how your fellow members of the faith would feel about you being on this web site either, since there is some slight profanity here and there and most of us are not really religious in any way anymore. Many here are probably like me, unemployed now, hungover, and disfellowshiped from the organization already.
Sorry for the rant, but I hope some of this makes sense?
Matt
everything makes perfict sense and can be proven
Once you said that, I got up to leave this conversation.
I wish you well, but any theology that has people "proving" it has people
thinking with their faith leaps. No insults. You might be on the path to
enlightenment, I don't know.
I am just done with any religion that "can be proven."
Thanks for sharing your stories. When you help ex-JW's, remember that not many of
them are ready to replace their belief system with another. Keep posting and try not to
be offended by the flames against religious beliefs from other posters.
Hello and welcome FJPrice.
Mixed bag on this forum which makes it most interesting and informative. I personally find the Catholic faith so intrenched with pagonism, its not for me, but to each their own everyone has a choice and if thats youres its youre buisness.
cheers
People do not need human intercessors between themselves and God.
I assume you are reffering to confession to priests?
In matthew chapter 16, we read starting in verse 13, "And Jesus came into the quarters of Cesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? 14 But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets 15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?
16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.
We see peter answered, made a profession of faith.
17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Jesus calls Simon Bar-Jona (son of Jona, or, Son of the Dove) blessed
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Christ says that thou art Peter(or Petros in greek, which means Stone, or Rock) and then says upon this rock I will build my church. At this point, I sometimes have someone who has studied some greek so they say that the word Petros means equivilent to the word pebel today, that petra is the word for rock, which is somewhat true, in some early greek writings, long before christ's time, they did have a distinction, as they do in attic greek, but i'm sure we both know the bible was written in koine greek, and as both catholic and non-catholic greek scholars will agree, they can mean either in koine greek, just as stone in english can mean a large bolder or a small pebel.
Anyway, to continue -
19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
here we see christ give they keys to peter, saying whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven, that is, the authority of the church.
Now lets look at john chapter 20, starting in verse 19, we see the disiples gathers together in an upper room, jesus appears to them and says, peace be with you.
"He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you." 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them:Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
so we see christ pouring out the holy spirit and comissioning the disciples, and saying to them Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. Now, the disciples could forgive sins, if people didn't confess sins to them, how could they forgive them?
Now, one more scripture to tie it all in, And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. - 2 Cor. 2:10
When we are ordained, in the laying of hands - what we call apostolic succession is passed on, that is, the line of succession back to the apostles is passed on to us. In this we can act 'in persona christi" that is, in the person of christ. We see this in the mass, when the priest says "This is my body", and in confession, "I absolve you of your sins, in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, amen." - Its not the priests own power, but that of god's through the instrument of the priest.
You are titling yourself "Father" and people are expected to call you by that title, right? But clearly Yeshua of Nazareth gave specific Rabbinic instructions not to address any human being by that pious title. Not to be confused with a person who calls his dad "father" in a paternal genetic sense, but specifically dealing with teachers, he made this statement:
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren.Mat 23:9And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven.Mat 23:10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ.
Ok, so are you saying that a child cannot call their parent father? Its almost common sense that we know that christ wasn't forbidding the use of the word in this way. What about scriptures such as "I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know" (Job 29:16)" ""So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:8)"
So, we see that it applies also to wise counselers like joseph, but did that change in the NT? No, we read also he forbids to call someone rabbi, or, teacher, yet we hear numerous examples in the NT of those who are called teacher, even appointed teacher in the church, "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28) Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle (I say the truth, I lie not), a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth. (1 Tim. 2:7)
Today we call those with a ph.d. a doctor, yet docter is the latin word for teacher, so can we take this verse literally?
Jesus was not forbidding us to call men "fathers" if they are actually a "father" weather literally, or spiritually.
Look at the apostles them selves, "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2) "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2) together with many other examples, where he calls Timothy my son, titus my child in a common faith, ect.
And, was timothy the physical child of Paul? no...
My second question, Mr. Price regards the following statement on your church's website:
The fee for each program is $50.00 and $25 for the
framed certificate (which includes shipping and handling
charges).
To start your biblical studies, please contact us via email
as to which course you would like to study and we will
issue you the materials needed via email.Once again, the bible has something to say about this sort of thing as well:
(Mat 10:8)
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give.(Rom 8:32)
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?(Rev 21:6) And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
I really don't see how you can ask people to blindly pay money to study what your religion is teaching, unless of course there is one major thing I have not considered... Is your church even bible based in any way?
Those are just as it says on the site, classes. They are not required in any way and do not teach the faith. When someone who is new to the church, there is the catechesis of that individual free, classes teaching core doctrine, faith and theology are of course at no charge.
So Mr. Price, what exactly is your real agenda for us?
I have no 'agenda', I just joined the board to discuss, to read and to hope for a mutual benefit to myself and others.
