Bible Error: Did the Sun Stand Still for Joshua?

by JosephAlward 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Do you know how to read Joe? I know people here will read the above and recognize another lie when they see it. A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

    I know you know how to lie, but read the above, Joseph. Read it long and hard. You are again a liar Joseph.

    Now I know your mission.

    John 8:44-45
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    You're just like your Daddy.

    So long Joe.

    PS. God told me this bud's for you Joey:

    2 Peter 2:17-19
    17 These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity-for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    How right you are, Francois.

    First of all, it's obvious that the writer thought that the sun revolved around an earth which was unmoving-everyone thought that at that time; how could they have thought otherwise? They didn't have telescopes to observe the orbits of the planets, so they could only conclude what their eyes told them: it was the sun moving, not the earth.

    Why didn't the all-knowing God tell the writer that the earth revolved around the sun and that God made the day long by stopping the earth's rotation, not by causing the sun to stop revolving around the earth? God could have saved man centuries of misconception by telling man then and there how the solar system worked; instead, he allowed man to be misled. God should have known better. Indeed, if a god *had* inspired the telling of this story, that god *would* have done better. The fact that the story wasn't told right is strong evidence that it wasn't inspired by a god.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    >>God does not violate his own laws. In him there is no shadow of change.<<

    He parted the Red Sea, turned the Nile into blood, created everything from nothing, turned a defiant woman into salt and the list is almost endless. That defies the Laws of physics, of which God made, and which He broke.

    You're absolutely wrong.

    Now...let's talk spiritual laws, OF WHICH GOD WILL NEVER CHANGE...THAT's what that scripture is all about...LIKE THIS, LAW ONE:

    Heb 6:18
    "...it is impossible for God to lie,"

    That LAW will never be broken.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Pom writes, Heb 6:18 "...it is impossible for God to lie.’ That LAW will never be broken.

    Oh, really?

    The evidence shows that the Bible contradicts itself on this question. Here is the evidence:

    According to the American Heritage Dictionary, Fourth Edition, © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin, a lie is defined as “ Something meant to DECEIVE or give a wrong impression.”

    Then I said, "Ah, Sovereign LORD, how completely you have DECEIVED this people and Jerusalem by saying, `You will have peace,' when the sword is at our throats." (Jeremiah 4:10)

    O LORD, you DECEIVED me, and I was deceived; you overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me. (Jeremiah 20:7)

    Thus, if Jeremiah can be believed, God deceived people intentionally, and that qualifies him as a liar, which makes the Hebrew author wrong, which makes the Bible in error. Alternatively, the Hebrews author is right, and the Jeremiah author is wrong; either way, the Bible is in error.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    I dug this out of one of my files. I will not type out the whole article but it relates to this subject. There used to be an internet site to retrieve this info but the URL I have does not work anymore.

    'Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland, and a consultant in the space program, relates the following develpment.

    I think one of the most amazing things that God has done for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at GreenBelt, Maryland. They were checking out where the positions of the sun, moon and planets would be 100 years and 1,000 years from now. We have to know this so we won't send up a satillite and have it bump into something later on its orbit. We have to layout the orbits in terms of the life of the satellite and where the planets will be so the whole thing will not bog down.

    They ran the computer measurements back and forth over the centuries, and it came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong with either the information fed into it or the results as compared to the standards. They called in the service department to check it out, and they said, "What's wrong?"

    Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsedm time. They scratched their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer. Finally a Christian man on the team said, "You know, one time I was in Sunday School, and they talked about the Sun standing still." While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, "Show us."

    He got a Bible and went to the book of Joshua............

    The astronauts and scientists said "There is a missing day!" They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was close but not close enough. The elapsed time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20 minutes...Not a whole day. They read the Bible, and there it was 'about' (approximately) a day. These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes, you'll still be in trouble 1,000 years from now. Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits.

    As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS. The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out the Book and read these words in 2nd Kings that told the following story: Hezekiah, on his death bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that he was going to die. Hezekiah asked foe a sign as proof. Isaiah said" Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?" Hezekiah said, "It is nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees, but let the shadow return backward 10 degrees." Isaiah spoke to the Lord, and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARDS! Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes!

    Twenty-three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in 2nd Kings 20:1-11 make the missing day in the universe!

  • Scorpion
  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Quirks of different translations.

    I'll do one, the other can be explained just as easy.

    Any well versed student of the Bible would know this is one of them mistranslations/misrenderings, which can be detected by the context and verified by examining the Hebrew words themsleves. The King James Version corrected their Bible of the wrong rendering:

    The Old King James:

    Jer 20:7
    7 O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I,
    KJV

    The New King James:

    Jer 20:7
    7 O LORD, You induced me, and I was persuaded;

    The American Standard Bible:

    Jer 20:7
    7 O Jehovah, thou hast persuaded me, and I was persuaded;
    ASV

    The Hebrew word for lie/deceive with little room for variation is "nasha." This is the word used by Eve in relation to Satan's deception. The word used here in Jer 20:7 is not the word "nasha." It is the word "pathah."

    Some of the ways "pathah" has been translated are allude, persuade, entice, flatter, enlarge and LASTLY deceive or delude, of which the context would need to indicate a sinister application for the proper rendering. Does the context here indicate a sinister application?

    No. It does show God persuading Jeremiah to go to the people that God is going to destroy, even though things like this were happeneing to him:

    Jer 20:2
    Then Pashhur beat Jeremiah the prophet, and put him in the stocks that were in the upper Benjamin Gate of the house of the LORD.

    Jer 20:7-10
    7 O LORD, You induced (pathah) me, and I was persuaded (pathah);
    You are stronger than I, and have prevailed.
    I am in derision daily;
    Everyone mocks me.
    8 For when I spoke, I cried out;
    I shouted, "Violence and plunder!"
    Because the word of the LORD was made to me
    A reproach and a derision daily.
    9 Then I said, "I will not make mention of Him,
    Nor speak anymore in His name."
    But His word was in my heart like a burning fire
    Shut up in my bones;
    I was weary of holding it back,
    And I could not.

    Now, here is where "pathah" can correctly be rendered deceived by the context of a sinister application:

    10 For I heard many mocking:
    "Fear on every side!"
    "Report," they say, "and we will report it!"
    All my acquaintances watched for my stumbling, saying,
    "Perhaps he can be deceived (pathah, sinister application);
    Then we will prevail against him,
    And we will take our revenge on him."

    bah bye

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    This is for Scorpion, who presented what he thinks is the "proof" that there's a missing day, and that NASA scientists discovered it.

    Scorpion, it's all nonsense. NASA scientists never discovered a "missing day." It's all a hoax.

    Below I've provided a comment from NASA, and one from another web site.

    The following was cut and pasted from a NASA web page; the URL is http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry//ask/a11497.html

    Did a NASA computer scientist discover a 'missing day' in a program used to calculate the positions of the planets, as forecast in the Bible?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is one of those 'myths' that has been circulating around since about 1860 or so. The answer is a flat NO!!

    For more information about this idea and its many re-tellings in the last 100 years visit the Urban Legends web site, and a second page by Answering Islam which discusses this 'christian legend' from a slightly different point of view.

    The original version of this story dates from the 1800's when an un-named astronomer was quoted as having discovered a missing 23hour 20 minute time period during some 'calculation'. With the advent of computers, this story was upgraded in the 1960's to a 'NASA Computer Scientist' doing an ephemeris of the planets in the solar system. The basic idea is completely preposterous because, as the Urban Legends web site points out so well, you cannot uncover a interfering event with a mathematical model based on things behaving the same way back then as they do right now vis a vis celestial mechanics. If the information is not built-in to the equations at the start of the calculation, an unexpected interferring event cannot be uncovered by such a procedure.

    There are many other 'urban legends' out there including the one that Carl Sagan ever said 'billions and billions' during his Cosmos series. We tend to believe things that sound plausible, and since virtually no one except scientists understand astronomy, in a country where the average person does not understand why we have seasons, it is easy to see how farfetched ideas can take root so easily!!

    End NASA comment.

    Here's another web site which discusses this urban legend. I've cut and pasted from the URL
    http://www.urbanlegends.com/science/missing_day.html

    :
    : FOUND MISSING DAY
    : I have read that space scientists at Green Belt, Maryland, have discovered
    : the missing day of long ago. Can you enlarge?
    :
    : We understand from a magazine article that space scientists in America were
    : checking the positions of sun, moon and planets both 100 years and 1000
    : years from now. This information was necessary to plan the trajectories of
    : satellities and other space vehicles to avoid the danger of collisions. The
    : scientists ran computer measurements back and forth over the centuries but
    : discovered something was wrong either with the information fed into the
    : computers or with the results when compared with the calculated standards.
    : The computers were checked for accuracy but they still showed that a day
    : was missing. One of the team remembered the story in the book of Joshua
    : (chapters 9 and 10) in the Bible which tells of Joshua coming to the rescue
    : of Gibeon (?) and asking God to make the sun stand still. The space team
    : checked the computer going back to the time of Joshua and found the elapsed
    : time that was missing was 23 hours and 20 minutes, not a whole day but as
    : the Bible account states "about a whole day". This left a disparity of 40
    : minutes. Again the Bible student came to the resuce remembering another
    : occasion when Hezekiah, on his death bed, was visited by the prophet Isiah
    : who told him God was going to heal him. Hezekiah asked for a sign and was
    : given the choice of the sun going forward or backward 10 degrees. Ten
    : degrees is exactly 40 minutes. Adding this to the 23 hours and 20 minutes
    : in Joshua makes up the missing 24 hours.
    :
    :This sounds like one of those National Enquirer type "beat-ups". Any-one care
    :to comment, pass judgement, provide further information?
    This story has been circulating in its NASA version at least since the 1960s, largely due to its promulgation by one Harold Hill, who says that he was present at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center when the above events allegedly took place. NASA denies that this ever occurred, and Hill, the former president of the Curtis Engine Company of Baltimore, was involved in diesel engine operations at Goddard and had no involvement with any computer operations. The story predates Hill's NASA version, and goes back to Charles A. L. Totten's _Joshua's Long Day and the Dial of Ahaz: A Scientific Vindication_ (1890). Hill published his version in Harold Hill, as told to Irene Burk Harrell, _How to Live Like a King's Kid_, 1974, Logos International. (Logos International was a Christian publisher with no qualms about publishing phony testimonies--it also published Mike Warnke's _The Satan Seller_, Michael Esses' _Michael, Michael, Why Do You Hate Me?_, and Fernand Navarra's _Noah's Ark--I Touched It_, all of which have been debunked.)
    For a detailed account of the "missing day" story, see:
    Brunvand, Jan Harold (1984) _The Choking Doberman and Other "New" Urban Legends_, W. W. Norton and Company, pp. 198-199.
    --- (1991) "The Missing Day in Time," paper presented at the annual conference of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), Berkeley, California, May 4.
    Loftin, Robert W. (1991) "Origin of the Myth About a Missing Day in Time," _Skeptical Inquirer_ vol. 15, no. 4, Summer, pp. 350-351.
    McIver, Tom (1986) "Ancient Tales and Space-Age Myths of Creationist Evangelism," _Skeptical Inquirer_ vol. 10, no. 3, Spring, pp. 258-276.
    Jim Lippard [email protected]
    Dept. of Philosophy [email protected]
    University of Arizona
    Tucson, AZ 85721

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    I'm with Joe on this... (Imagine that!)

    That was a fake report.

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Did God deceive Jeremiah?

    The answer is still, yes, in my opinion. Jeremiah was "pursuaded" to do something Jeremiah clearly didn't think would harm him, but he *was* harmed, so that qualifies what God did to Jeremiah as trickery. If Pom doesn't want to believe that his NIV correctly translated Jeremiah 20:7 as "deceived," I won't debate that small point with him; but, he still has to explain why Jeremiah wasn't misled by God.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

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