Acts 15 v 1Corinthians 8: Did Paul Disagree With The Governing Body?

by Justitia Themis 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    I read an interesting statement in "The New Testament In Its Social Environment," by Stambaugh and Balch. It referenced Acts 15 and 1 Corinthians as evidence that Paul later disagreed with the Jerusalem ruling and overturned it..on his own...without 'consulting' any group. I found the following QFR on the CD-rom. The scriptures that WTBTS uses as proof-texts to support their position, IMO, prove nothing. Does any one else have any thoughts?

    w7810/15pp.30-31 QuestionsFromReaders

    Questions FromReaders

    Did the apostle Paul disagree with the first century governing body about eating meat offered to idols, as some conclude from comparing Acts 15:28,29 with 1Corinthians chapter 8.

    No, for the evidence proves that Paul was in full agreement with the decree of the apostles and elders.

    In the year 49, Paul and Barnabas brought to the Jerusalem body of elders and apostles the question of whether Gentile converts must get circumcised. Based on the Scriptures and God’s dealings, and guided by the holy spirit, the council determined that converts did not need to keep the Law. But, among other things, they did have to “keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols.”—Acts 15:1-29.

    About 55, Paul wrote to the Corinthians about eating food that had been sacrificed to idols. He said that an idol is really nothing. So a Christian could eat meat that had been sacrificed to an idol, and that later as surplus was taken out and sold in a meat market or in a public restaurant connected with the temple. If, however, someone who previously worshiped the idol would stumble at the Christian’s eating such meat, Paul advised that it would be best to avoid doing so in order that the other person’s faith would not be damaged.—1 Cor. 8:7-13; 10:25-33; Rom. 14:1-4, 19-23.

    In view of this, some Bible commentators have contended that Paul was refusing to go along with the council’s decree or that there was a continuing division on the matter. For example, Professor E. Blaiklock says: “In 1 Cor. viii. 4 Paul himself publicly adopts a more liberal attitude than that which the decree lays down.” Heinrich A. Meyer writes about Paul’s supposed “self-subsistent position—wholly independent of the authority of all the other apostles.” And Dr. Meyer comments that in First Corinthians chapter 8 Paul “makes no reference to the decree of the apostles either here or elsewhere, which is in keeping with his consciousness of his own direct and independent apostolic dignity. . . . Moreover, this very chapter, along with chap. x., shows plainly that, in virtue of his independent position as an apostle, he had early enough shaken himself clear of all applications of the temporary agreement come to at Jerusalem.”

    Such reasoning is insidious, dangerous and contrary to God’s inspired Word. It reflects the idea that Bible books present personal and contradictory human opinions and are not all inspired and beneficial. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17) And, at least in some cases, it reflects a desire to label the decree of Acts 15:28, 29 as temporary and now unnecessary. This, though, conflicts with the Bible and with the historical evidence that Christians in the second century and beyond recognized the decree as binding.

    What actually was Paul’s position on the matter of “abstaining from things sacrificed to idols”?

    Far from taking exception to that decree, Paul and Barnabas participated in the council that reached that decision. Then they publicized the decision, as Acts 16:4 reports: “Now as they traveled on through the cities they would deliver to those there forobservance the decrees that had been decided upon by the apostles and older men who were in Jerusalem.” This built up the congregations.

    Did Paul change his stand by the time he wrote First Corinthians (c. 55) or Romans (c. 56)? Not at all. In fact, it was after writing both of those letters that he went to Jerusalem the last time. (1 Cor. 16:8; Acts 19:1; Rom. 15:25) While there, he met with James and the older men, who referred back to the decree of Acts 15:28, 29 as still valid and binding on Christians. Paul did not disagree.—Acts 21:17-26.

    Hence, we have good reason to expect that any seeming conflict between the council’s decree and what Paul wrote can be resolved. And that certainly is so.

    What the decree in Acts 15:28, 29 forbade was a Christian’s being part of a formal, religious ceremony or his committing an act of idolatry. Those who sacrificed an animal to an idol got some of the meat to eat. Their doing so was clearly a religious act; it was considered sharing in a meal with the pagan god. (Ex. 34:15; Deut. 32:17; 1 Cor. 10:18-21) Christians absolutely could not do that. The decree of the Christian governing body had forbidden it, and Paul was in full agreement. He wrote: “Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry.”—1 Cor. 10:14; 1 Thess. 1:9.

    So, in writing what he did in 1 Corinthians 8 and 10 and Romans 14, Paul was not granting permission to share in an idolatrous act or feast in honor of an idol, as the Israelites had done and incurred God’s wrath. (Num. 25:1-4; Rev. 2:14) Rather, he was dealing with simply eating, as a customary meal, meat from an idol temple that had been sold to the public in general. Such meat was not unclean or defiled simply because of its background.

  • Terry
    Terry

    When it finally came to my attention that there was something in Judaism called The Law of the Sons of Noah I was surprised, shocked and finally, angry that the Watchtower had not mentioned it.

    The Noahide Laws were for non-Jews (Gentiles) who wished to be regarded as righteous on the same par with the chosen people of Jehovah (Jews) who kept the Law of Moses.

    When the issue of who had to do what came up in Jerusalem vis a vis circumcision or anything else of a "conversion" nature it was only normal and procedural to quote from the already existing Noahide Law.

    Gentiles were never held to any further or greater standard than these Laws of the Sons of Noah.

    Paul, coming from both Jews and Pagans, would be conversant with that and know he was on safe grounds.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_laws

    Additionally (as a sidebar) be it noted that the prohibition against "blood" actually referred to murder (bloodshed) and has been misused by Jehovah's Witnesses for decades!

  • erynw
    erynw
    Such meat was not unclean or defiled simply because of its background.

    Uh...Christmas?

    Switch it up a bit and you get:

    Such a celebration is not unclean or defiled simply because of its background.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    evidence that Paul later disagreed with the Jerusalem ruling and overturned it..on his own...without 'consulting' any group.

    Justitia Themis,

    Yes, Paul disagreed with the Jerusalem congregation, along with James, Peter and John, long before their letter was written. That is why he went there in the first place with Antioch's blessing and support. (Gal. 2:1-21) Thinking the matter was settled he left taking their letter as meaning nothing more than a peaceful gesture between Jewish and Gentile Christians. You noticed that he did not support it’s contents as a doctrinal mandate. James still keeping the Law along with apostles living there also noticed it and when Paul returned some 14 years later James said to Paul: Acts 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. They were still wrong. His meeting did not have the required result and Paul was there to correct them once again. But Paul was now alone. He needed time to reason with them. They were ready to kill him and later almost did but the Roman army saved him. So Paul took the vows in order to talk to them. This error would turn out badly for Paul. It would take the letter to the Hebrews to settle the matter officially. Paul fought with such Law keeping Jews in nearly all his letters. He fought with James who finally gave in and wrote his letter which no longer supported keeping the Law. Instead we find: 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. And he said: James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Things were not rosy in the faith even them and there was a stuggle for such truth. It was placed in the hands of the Apostles not in the hands of the Jerusalem congregation. And even such apostles needed dressing down at times. Luke a supporter of Paul made this known so that we could understand why Paul had so much difficulty with such Jews in all his territories.

    Joseph

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    he left taking their letter as meaning nothing more than a peaceful gesture between Jewish and Gentile Christians. You noticed that he did not support it’s contents as a doctrinal mandate.

    Compare Acts 16:4:

    As they went from town to town, they (Paul etc.) delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem
  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Narkissos,

    Yes but it was done to keep the peace between such Jews and Gentiles, not as a doctrinal issue and something that had a bearing on their salvation. It was not taken as a different doctrine for Jews and Gentiles thus dividing the faith. Paul did not make it mandatory either as you already saw. And the letter to the Hebrews threw it out altogether. The Jews in Jerusalem and elsewhere however did not see it that way as shown earlier which was a continuing problem in the faith that had to be corrected. Eventually it would be.

    Joseph

    P.S. Another way to put it is to say that even Apostles and Elders made mistakes that took years to resolve. Luke recorded this one so we could understand this reality and follow Christ directly as instructed. But if we take it as truth, then why are Jews in the faith not instructed to take Nazarite vows as Paul was instructed in Jerusalem?

    JM

  • TD
    TD

    What the decree in Acts 15:28, 29 forbade was a Christian’s being part of a formal, religious ceremony or his committing an act of idolatry.

    This is somewhat tangential to your question, but I'm struck by the fact that any attempt to harmonize the two lines of thought utterly destroys their reasoning on blood.

    If, as they claim, the abstention from the idol sacrifice was a reference to the finite act of idolatry then it is self apparent that the resultant prohibition is both qualified and situationally specific. Eating the flesh of an animal sacrificed to an idol was wrong only under certain circumstances. (i.e. As part of a "formal religious ceremony" or some other idolatrous act.)

    But when it comes to the abstention from blood, (Another noun in the exact same sentence sentence linked to the exact same verb, apechesthai) JW writers are struck with a convenient attack of amnesia and they claim that the resultant prohibition is unqualified, absolute and would rule out the use of blood under any and all circumstances.

    In fact, they're not even willing to allow that the abstention from blood was a reference to the act of eating (Which is still far more general than the specific act of idolatry and would therefore result in a more sweeping prohibition.), but they (Ungrammatically) attempt to link the intransitive, "Abstain" directly to the noun, "Blood" without a use verb of any kind

    Well they can't have it both ways. If the JW reasoning on the abstention from blood is correct, then Paul was openly and sharply disagreeing with the so called "Governing Body." But if the JW reasoning on the abstention from the idol sacrifice is correct, then their reasoning on blood is wrong.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    TD,

    Exactly why they picked such unrelated things still involving the Law in some way, I do not know. They were stuck on the Law and wanted Gentiles to recognize it as well. A little was better than none at all for them. But you know that would still make Gentiles guilty as James finally pointed out. Not a good thing to do. Perhaps it was based on Laws that scripture does not record as Terry mentioned earlier. But the Jews in Jerusalem could not continue to keep the Law and circumcision while Gentiles were exempt. That was clearly wrong and dealt with later. So what happened? James ended the argument thus saving the day for the time being. What James did not do however is to apply this teaching to himself or the rest of the Jews there. And Paul did not catch it either so it nearly cost him his life many years later. It may sound like a strange story but a true one. All of it had to go. The Law, circumcision as a requirement for anyone, and that letter that caused so much trouble later for Paul. We learned enough from this to understand that we should be on our own and not dependent of such leaders. Test such thoughts. The scriptures would be enough. We may need someone to help us for a while but should be on our own when trained. We may associate with others but must be personally responsible for what we teach others. What the WT has done with all this is murderous and disgusting. What on earth are they thinking?

    Joseph

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    TD ya beat be to it. Good thing cause I couldn't have described it that well.

    Paul also mentions:
    (Rom 14:7) for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

    He's in the middle of a passage where he's explaining how it doesn't matter what we eat or don't eat, unless it causes a conflict with our brothers.

    What was Acts 15 about? A resolution of a conflict between the brothers.

    That's one way to look at it.


    Anyway, I agree that if one looks at the wording in the decree as unqualified and absolute, i.e., "under no circumstances are you to eat meat sacrificed to idols", then Paul most definitely was contradicting it.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    When Paul contradicts someone he generally argues.

    In 1 Corinthians 8; 10 the argument is against the advocates of absolute "freedom" regarding "food sacrificed to idols"; there is not the slightest hint to a diametrically opposite stance, i.e. absolute prohibition as described in Acts (and also Revelation).

    Which strongly suggests that Paul had never heard about the so-called "decree," and that its setting in Acts 15, with Paul attending and transmitting the "decree," is fictitious. Not that the "decree" itself is a fabrication. It certainly reflects some local rule in the early Church (see the area of "distribution" in chapter 16). But the writer of Acts modifies its setting, hence its scope.

    There is another remarkable inconsistency in Acts on this issue (as on many others): in 21:25, Jamesinforms Paul about the "decree" as if Paul had never heard of it (and Paul doesn't even answer "Hey buddy, I was there, remember!")

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