25 year old pregnant woman dies after stabbing

by Bumble Bee 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  Bumble Bee

  25-year-old pregnant woman dies after Toronto stabbing

  Jordana Huber; with files from Natalie Alcoba, National

  CanWest News Service; with files from National Post

  Wednesday, October 03, 2007
  

  TORONTO - Toronto police on Tuesday charged a 29-year-old man with second-degree murder following a domestic assault that resulted in the death of a 25-year-old woman and her unborn child.

  Police were called to a home in North York early Tuesday morning after receiving a call about a stabbing.

  When they arrived, police discovered two women with knife wounds.

  Both victims were taken to hospital where the pregnant woman - Aysun Sesen - underwent an emergency caesarean section. Her baby was delivered stillborn. Though the baby did not survive, under Canadian law, the accused only can be charged with one count of murder.

  "In Canadian criminal law an unborn child is not a being until that child emerges and takes a breath," said Det. Sgt. Gary Grinton. "In this particular case, there is no question because the baby was not born alive, and never took a breath, it is not a homicide in relation to the fetus."

  Police said they have no motive in the killing and had never before been called to the home.

  "They were both cool people," said Mustafa Dogan, a relative of the accused, who saw the couple two weeks ago. "She was very excited about the baby. He was a nice guy and she was always so nice, too."

  According to relatives, the accused lived with his wife and his parents. Police said he was a carpenter by trade, but was currently not working.

  The two were married in 2000 and were expecting their first child next month. "They walked up the street hand in hand," said neighbour Rose Keats, 57. "They'd go to Lamaze classes together."

  Keats said she heard arguing among the women but said she had never seen the accused get violent.

  The suspect's 44-year-old mother is expected to undergo plastic surgery today to repair a "very severe wound to her arm."

  Police have not been able to speak with her because she is under heavy sedation.

  Turan Cocelli is charged with one count of second-degree murder and one count of aggravated assault.

  © CanWest News Service 2007 The discussion on a talk radio program I listen to in the morning was about if the suspect should have been charged with homicide in the case of the unborn baby. The majority of the callers all said yes - he should have. I have to agree with that. What do you think? BB
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  Life Is Grand

  I agree that this guy should have been charged with the murder of the unborn child as well. It sickened me when I heard about this law on the news...so sad.

  LIG
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  Paralipomenon

  The annoying part of law is that it cannot perfectly match every situation. While disgusting, if charged with homicide, that would set a legal president that would allow anyone associated with an abortion to be charged the same.
  
  Very slippery legal slope. I don't think a court will want to touch this issue with a ten foot pole, but hopefully the judge will impose an extremely harsh sentence that reflects the severity of the crime.
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  Bumble Bee

  Yes, the issue of abortion came up this morning as well. What is needed is something like this bill -

  Federal Bill To Protect Unborn Victims of Violence

  WASHINGTON -- For the first time, many acts of violence against unborn children would be prohibited by federal law under a major new pro-life bill introduced on July 1 by Congressman Lindsey Graham (R-SC) with the strong backing of NRLC.

  The Unborn Victims of Violence Act (H.R. 2436) would provide stringent federal penalties -- in some cases, life in prison for the crime of injuring or killing an unborn child during the commission of acts already defined as federal crimes.

  Most assaults and homicides are prosecuted by state governments. However, there are also scores of federal laws dealing with acts of violence. Many of these laws protect employees of the federal government, including those in military service and their dependents. Others apply to crimes that occur within federal geographical jurisdictions, such as ships at sea or military bases. Still others apply to certain types of acts of violence, such as terrorist bombings.

  Thus, it is already a federal crime to attack, injure, or kill any of the millions of women who fall under the protection of these laws. But right now, it is not a federal crime to injure or kill the unborn child of such a woman.

  The Unborn Victims of Violence Act would change that. Under the bill, if a person commits a violent act against a woman that is already a federal crime under existing law, and also injures or kills the unborn child of such a woman, he will be charged with crimes against two victims the woman and the unborn child.

  "For the first time, the unborn child would be recognized in federal law as the victim of a crime of violence," explained NRLC Federal Legislative Director Douglas Johnson.

  The bill provides that the punishment for injuring or killing an unborn child would be the same as the punishment, under existing federal laws, if the same conduct had resulted in the same degree of harm to the mother. This would result in federal prison sentences for convicted offenders, ranging from up to three years if an unborn baby suffers a minor injury during a simple assault on a federal employee, to life imprisonment for many cases in which the baby dies. The new bill does not, however, establish any death-penalty offenses.

  Because the bill does not deal with the legality of abortion, it does not conflict with U.S. Supreme Court decisions currently in force. Therefore, the bill should be upheld in the courts, if challenged. Thus, the protection of dozens of existing federal laws, dealing with crimes such as assault, manslaughter, and homicide, would be extended to unborn children.

  http://www.euthanasia.com/viol.html

  BB
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  journey-on

  ...." baby was not born alive, and never took a breath, it is not a homicide in relation to the fetus."

  8 months! This child was viable! These kinds of laws are STUPID to the max. I don't want to start a big row about abortion. It just

  turns into a heated spitting match. But I absolutely HATE the idea that a life begun should be allowed to be snuffed out for any reason

  or worse, no reason. IMO, abortion was made legal during a time in human history when we were going through a sociological upheaval

  where "if it feels good, do it" was the norm. People were rejecting established mores and things that were taboo were becoming acceptable.

  I think some of this was a good thing, but I think humanity went WAY OVERBOARD and at a vulnerable time in our history, we allowed

  this atrocity of abortion to become okay. IT BOGGLES THE MIND!

  A human being was murdered in this instance, imo. This sickens me and makes me hurt.
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  Bumble Bee

  A human being was murdered in this instance, imo. This sickens me and makes me hurt.

  I know, me too .

  BB
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  Dagney

  Two words...Scott Peterson.
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  Bumble Bee

  Thanks for that Dagney!

  I knew there was a conviction for the death of an unborn child but could not thing of the name!

  BB
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  greendawn

  I also agree that the life of the unborn child is also a human life just like any. It is amazing how an act of insanity can destroy a whole family physically or psychologically.
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  skeeter1

  In the United States, it depends on which state the killing took place & how far along the pregnant woman was. I found this table on the Internet, and it's a few year's old...but it's a start...

  As of 2004-MAY-25, the following states have some form of fetal homicide or unborn victim laws:

  Some cover the interval from conception to birth: State Term Criminal charge Arizona Unborn child Manslaughter Idaho Human embryo or fetus Murder, manslaughter Illinois Unborn Child Homicide or manslaughter (various types) Kentucky Unborn child Fetal homicide (4 degrees) Louisiana Unborn child Feticide (3 degrees) Minnesota Unborn Child Murder or manslaughter (various degrees) Missouri Unborn child First degree murder or Involuntary manslaughter Nebraska Unborn child Murder (2 degrees) or manslaughter North Dakota Unborn child Murder, felony murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide Pennsylvania Unborn child, fetus Various degrees of manslaughter or manslaughter South Dakota Unborn child Fetal homicide, manslaughter, or vehicular homicide Texas Unborn child Same as for a child or adult Utah Unborn child Same as for a child or adult Virginia Fetus Separate law Wisconsin Unborn Child Homicide (various types)

  Others cover the interval from some point in pregnancy until birth: State Term Start of interval Criminal charge Arkansas Unborn child 12 weeks gestation Murder, manslaughter, homicide California Fetus 7 to 8 weeks Murder Florida 1) Unborn quick child 2) Unborn child 1) At quickening? 2) At viability 1)Felony of the second degree 2) Vehicular homicide Georgia Unborn child At quickening Feticide (various types) Indiana Fetus At viability Murder or manslaughter Mass. Unborn child At viability Homicide or manslaughter Mississippi 1) Human being 2) Unborn child 1) At conception 2) At start of pregnancy 1) Various 2) Various Michigan Unborn quick child 1) At viability (24 weeks) 2) Embryo or fetus 1) Manslaughter 2) Felony charge Nevada Unborn quick child At quickening? Manslaughter New York Unborn child 24 weeks gestation Homicide * Ohio Unborn member of the species homo sapiens At beginning of pregnancy Various charges of murder, manslaughter, and homicide Oklahoma 1) Unborn quick child 2) Unborn child 1) At quickening? 2) At viability 1) Manslaughter 2) Homicide Rhode Is. Unborn quick child At viability Manslaughter S Carolina Unborn child At viability Homicide Tennessee Unborn child At viability Murder or Homicide Washington Unborn quick child At quickening? Manslaughter

  * Another New York law conflicts with this. It defines a "person" who is the victim of a homicide as a "human being who has been born and is alive," -- presumably at the time of the offence.

  The above information was extracted from the National Right to Life web site. 2 They last updated their list on 2004-MAY-25. If your interest is more than casual, we recommend that you view that site and track down the applicable state law.