Anointed... Christians... Bride... Sheep...

by AGuest 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    To the Household of God that is Israel, and all who go with... may you have peace!

    "Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not
    prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name
    and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet
    I will confess to them: ‘I never knew you!’”

    Throughout the world, there are those who profess to be “christian” and yet, deny an anointing by holy spirit. Truly, dear ones, this cannot be. For ALL who are “christian”… are “anointed’… for that is what the very word “christian” means: anointed person/chosen person. True, there are those who put their faith in Christ and follow his teachings without such choosing and anointing; however, these, while “disciples”… are not in fact “christians.”

    When my Lord made the statement recorded at Matthew 7:23, he was not simply referring to his knowledge of an individual or a mere acquaintance with such one; nor was he referring to them having a knowledge of or mere acquaintance with him. He was also not referring to those who believed in him: simply being a “believer” does not make one a christian, for even the DEMONS believe.

    When my Lord said, “I never KNEW you,” he meant knew… in the “biblical” sense. The word “know,” used at Matthew 7:23, means knowledge as in sexual intercourse. But how can that be? How can the Christ “know” someone in the “biblical” sense? It is through a UNION… of SPIRIT. Just as a man and woman who become joined through the flesh become ONE flesh… one who is joined to the Christ… by SPIRIT… becomes ONE SPIRIT with him. There is, indeed, an intercourse.

    Those who put their faith in Christ… but have not yet received an anointing/choosing… and thus become one with him… by SPIRIT… are indeed sheep. But sheep as in those who do “good” to Christ by means of doing good to even the least ones of his brothers. These also receive a “white robe” (i.e., spirit body) and are alsogranted entry into the kingdom, as guests to the marriage feast of Christ and his Bride. But they are not members of his Bride… the very entity to whom he is JOINED… as a husband is joined to a WIFE… through intercourse.

    If one TRULY is a “christian,” however, such one has been anointed with holy spirit and as a result JOINED to Christ… by SPIRIT… so as to be a member of his BODY… and so his BRIDE… and thus ONE with him… as a husband is to a wife. For a Bride… has a HUSBAND… by means of a CONSUMMATED relationship. For earthling man, the consummation is completed through the flesh. For Christ… and HIS Bride… consummation is completed through the SPIRIT. Otherwise, she is merely a fiancée… or one who is promised as a bride… but she is not yet a bride.

    If one has NOT received such spirit, one is NOT a christian, because such one has not yet been chosen and anointed… and JOINED to Christ… BY SPIRIT… so as to become part of his Body… and a member of his Bride. True, one may have been CALLED… but until the receipt of the “token”… one has not yet been CHOSEN.

    There are NO “anointed” in the WTBTS; there are only those who may have been CALLED. However, if such called one has not separated him or her self… and QUIT touching the unclean thing… such one will not become chosen. For it is not until such touching ends that one is taken in by God, through Christ, as a son or a daughter.

    To NOT despair, however, if you have not yet received that spirit, the consummation which joins you to Christ, indeed, brings you INTO UNION with him. For the Way is still OPEN. All one needs do is ask… and one shall receive… IF one asks IN FAITH… WITHOUT doubting. For God grants His spirit to ANYONE asking… through Christ.

    Thus, I join in with the Spirit AND THE BRIDE… as they KEEP saying, to ALL those wishing and thirsting:

    “COME! Take ‘life’s water’… God’s holy spirit, which spirit is granted us by Christ… who joins us to himself as his Bride by means of an anointing… FREE!”

    Although you may have been taught otherwise, the Door to the Ark of the [New] Covenant is STILL open; it has not yet been closed. And you do not have to be special to enter. You do not have to be old. You do not have to be Hebrew. You do not have to be American. You do not have to read the Bible. You do not have to have money or special insight. You do not have to be… or DO… anything… except ASK… and then put FAITH in the thing “hoped for”… God’s holy spirit. For faith… is the ASSURED expectation of the thing hoped for. You cannot ask and expect to receive something you don't truly BELIEVE will be granted.

    And you do not need to do “works” FIRST; you only need exercise FAITH… first. There are SO many accounts that testify to this that those who teach otherwise should be ashamed. So many were granted favor SOLELY on the basis of their FAITH, regardless of what kind of person they were or what things they had done. It is AFTER receiving holy spirit that the works of God are made manifest through you… by means of Christ. But the initial receipt...is a GIFT… given out of UNdeserved kindness (i.e., mercy and love).

    You are not required to be "righteous" BEFORE receiving such spirit; indeed, it is the SPIRIT that MAKES you "righteous!" That is why my Lord said he did not come to call righteous persons, but to call SINNERS. Thus, you cannot “earn” it… you cannot be “worthy” of it. You only need ASK for it. For God gives His holy spirit to ALL who ask for it… through Christ... as a GIFT.

    I, SA, have spoken it to you, just as I heard and received it from my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH… of Armies.

    I bid you the greatest of peace and I remain your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • journey-on
    journey-on

    Nice to see you again, AGuest. As always, thank you for sharing. Question, though:

    There are NO “anointed” in the WTBTS; there are only those who may have been CALLED

    How do you know that at least some of those claiming to be annointed in the WTBTS have not received of the Holy Spirit?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    and the greatest of peace to you!

    Briefly, because, if they were "anointed," they would, by means the holy spirit that they were in fact anointed with:

    1. Know the Truth... and would follow HIM... and not a false prophet or false christs...

    2. Know that the WTBTS is a false prophet, led by false "christs" (false anointed)... whose leaders have seated themselves in the "seat of Moses"...

    3. Know that because they have a husbandly owner, Christ, to be joined to any other would constitute spiritual "adultery"...

    4. Know that rather than commit spiritual adultery, they are to "remain virgins," which they would have become by means of being washed clean by Christ's blood, which washing would have been witnessed to them by means of that holy spirit...

    5. Listen to the voice of Christ, rather than that of men...

    6. Know that "overseers" were merely men appointed, by holy spirit (and who also possessed such holy spirit) over the distribution of necessities to widows and orphans, versus being masters over their faith...

    7. Know that "minsterial servants" were men AND women...

    8. Know that the only "visible representation of the Lord on earth," which the WTBTS has designated itself to be, was the temple at Jerusalem, which was destroyed in 70 CE, and that the current "representation" is INVISIBLE... and CAN'T be seen by mere eyes... which is why we are to walk by FAITH and not by sight, but because they do not know how to worship what they cannot see, they walk by sight and worship a "golden calf"...

    9. Know that touching anything "unclean," including the WTBTS, renders them "unclean"...

    10. Would not only know, but hold TRUE to the fact that there is only ONE hope... regardless of what those they follow teach... and

    Most importantly, they would be able to EXPLAIN THAT ANOINTING... to ANYONE who asked. In detail. Without a problem. Without hesitation. And without fear, self-consciousness or embarassment. They would not... could not... hide it. Rather, they would HAVE to let their light SHINE... and NOT put it under a basket... no matter what others, particularly those who admit they are NOT anointed... said they should do. Indeed, not only would they tell others about themselves... but INVITE others to Come! and hold out that same hope to ALL... not just a few... and NOT rely on some group of men to tell them who is and who is not... and who they should speak to/associate with and who they should not... because the SPIRIT THAT IS IN THEM... would be teaching them... ALL things... so that they would not NEED anyone else to be teaching them.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg. But based on this... and the plethora of other identifiers, we should ALL know they are not. I do not deny they perhaps some have been CALLED... as the calling goes out to ALL... whatever their "religion". But it only those who HEAR the voice of Fine Shepherd ... who leads them OUT... and then follow THAT One.. who are called his sheep. Many are called, dear Journey... but few are chosen. And it is the choosing that makes one anointed... chosen... isn't it?

    I hope this helps. Please know that I am not "judging." I am merely stating what is true. They may eat and drink the bread and wine... but they do not discern what these truly represent. They do not know who the Tree of Life is... and that they follow those who teach... and adhere to the teaching... that only a small group may eat and drink... and that others should NOT... and yet will be resurrected to everlasting life... CONTRARY to what the very One they claim to follow, Christ, himself said... should tell us who they are not. I bid you peace.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • wozadummy
    wozadummy

    I liked your presentation but I'm afraid it does sound a bit like someone just re explaining what the WTS has said. How come it's so unclear what the bible is supposed to teach ? It should be easy to understand for humble people like those Jesus taught and accepted him?

    It seems reasonable that proud at heart would be blinded to the "truth" for Gods spirit would not accept these ,but we have a dilemna of a world with millions,possibly billions ,who seem humble but are not aparently accepted by the Lord and only those that pretend to be humble and are fairly intelligent IQ wise that seem to pick up the power trip that is being a religious leader and then command obedience to themselves in the name of the Lord - should'nt the call be distinct?

    I also question your statement that Ministerial servants are men and women and that you come on here proclaiming clarity of the bible message given to you ,Is this then a hidden agenda on your part on taking to yourself headship that the bible and the lord may not wish you to have.

    I respectively await your reply as just another bewildered ex whose perhaps a little tired of the uncertainness of the promises of religion .

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace! At the outset, I ask that you please not take offense at my italics and capitals - they are simply my style of writing and for emphasis only; I am not shouting. Okay, then:

    I liked your presentation but I'm afraid it does sound a bit like someone just re explaining what the WTS has said.

    I truly hope not. I tried to be VERY clear. If I was not, I sincerely apologize; hopefully, I can further clarify here.

    How come it's so unclear what the bible is supposed to teach?

    Because, “the Bible” is not “supposed” to teach you anything; really, it only contains certain writings (scripture) that bear witness to the One who is SUPPOSED to teach you. It even tells us that. True, it IS a “pedagogue” with regard to the Law Covenant, but the NEW Covenant is taught by the Holy Spirit and none other. That Spirit is the glorified Christ, God’s Word and Truth… who is a SPIRIT:

    “However, when that one arrives, the Spirit of the Truth, HE will guide you… into ALL truth…”

    “You do not need ANYONE to be teaching you, but the ANOINTING (which is done by holy spirit) from HIM is teaching you about ALL things…:"

    It should be easy to understand for humble people like those Jesus taught and accepted him?

    Why should the Bible be easy to understand? The compilers of it did not intend for it to be; in fact, they intended just the opposite.

    And humility, while an honorable and desirable quality… is not an initially NECESSARY quality. FAITH… is the required quality. When my Lord healed, fed, resurrected, forgave, etc., he did not say to those involved, “Your HUMILITY has made you well”… or “Your HUMILITY is great”… or “Truly, no greater HUMILITY has been found in all Israel.” No, he said, “Your FAITH has made you well”… or “Your FAITH is great”… or “Truly, no greater FAITH has been found in all Israel.” He did not ask, “When the Son of Man arrives, will he truly find HUMILITY in the earth.” Noah, Abraham, Moses, David… none of these were chosen because of their humility. All were chosen… because of their FAITH. The entire 11th Chapter of Hebrews explains that.

    And faith… does not mean “regularly attending” meetings/church. That’s… “religious.” It does not mean “believing.” The demons believe… and shudder. It MEANS, first… the ASSURED expectation… of the thing HOPED for. I.e., you KNOW you are going to receive the thing you hoped… and ask… for… which, in this case, is holy spirit. It ALSO means that, for example, if God tells you… through Christ… that it IS going to flood, so build an ark… you do not question the reality of rain or concern yourself with what those who did NOT hear think and believe. Rather, because YOU put faith in what you heard, YOU… EXERCISE that faith… and put it into ACTION. You build the ark because YOU heard Him tell you to do it, and you have FAITH that what He told you WILL occur. Even if it never has before. It is the LACK of faith… that stands between earthling man… and God.

    And after such “assured expectation,” faith goes on to mean “the EVIDENT demonstration… OF REALITY… though NOT beheld.” What does this mean? It means that SOMETHING has made the thing hoped for MANIFEST… evidently demonstrated… demonstrated evidence… of what is truly REAL…. even if it is not SEEN (beheld) with eyes of flesh (with its blood).

    Most don’t understand this, however, because those who “seat themselves in the seat of Moses,” and presume to teach you… do not possess it themselves! It’s like a man trying to describe what it is like to be a woman… and vice versa. Although you have SOME understanding… you have no true KNOWLEDGE. Thus, they are “blind guides” and mislead others as to what faith is… because THEY don’t know what faith is. They are simply guessing… which is why you, too, are left to guess.

    It seems reasonable that proud at heart would be blinded to the "truth" for Gods spirit would not accept these

    That’s not entirely true: a proud heart can be humbled; usually, however, such humility results AFTER the “the evident demonstration of [the] reality” has been manifest. I give you two examples: Saul of Tarsus… and Thomas. Both needed some kind of physical manifestation in order to humble themselves: Saul, a voice from heaven; Thomas, the holes in my Lord’s flesh. Thomas even stated that he would NOT believe… unless he saw. But it is my Lord’s words to Thomas that WE are supposed to keep in mind:

    “Because you have SEEN me have you believed? HAPPY… are those who do NOT… SEE me… and yet… BELIEVE.”

    If you notice, however, he did NOT say… “Happy are those who do not HEAR me… and yet believe.” This is because although we cannot initially SEE him… we can always HEAR him. For faith… “follows the thing HEARD. In turn, the thing HEARD… is the Word of God.” Or, as the KJV puts it (because the NWT is SO way off on this particular verse):

    “So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing… by the Word of God.”

    but we have a dilemna of a world with millions,possibly billions ,who seem humble but are not apparently accepted by the Lord…

    It is not that such ones are not accepted by my Lord. Rather, it is that my Lord is not “accepted” by such ones. They would rather put their faith in something they can see: a pope, a governing body, a pastor… “hired men” all. Who "abandon" God's sheep... to "wolves." I had a witness “sister” even say to me once, in utter frustration when I tried to explain to her how faith works: “But people can’t worship what they can’t see!” She obviously didn’t get the exhortations that we are to “walk by faith and NOT by sight”… and that “the righteous live… by means of faith.” Of course, her position was that she “had faith” because she regularly attended meetings and did what “the Bible” said, which, again, is not faith.

    and only those that pretend to be humble and are fairly intelligent IQ wise that seem to pick up the power trip that is being a religious leader and then command obedience to themselves in the name of the Lord

    I agree with “pretend to be humble;” however, that they are “fairly intelligent IQ-wise,” is irrelevant: God chooses the FOOLISH things of the world… which can be from among the highly intelligent (if we’re going by IQ numbers), to those severely lacking in intelligence (again, based on the “numbers”) to give His spirit to. Indeed, there are both highly “intelligent” people and those not so much… who have great faith… as well as those who are highly “intelligent” and those not so much… who greatly lack faith.

    - should'nt the call be distinct?

    The call IS distinct. Very. And sooner or later, we ALL hear it. ALL of us. Everyone one of us. The problem is that we don’t all RESPOND when we hear it. For some, it’s because there are those who have told us (1) God doesn’t speak; (2) if you DO hear a voice, it’s demons; (3) if God called someone it certainly wouldn’t be YOU; (3) God only calls those “worthy”; (4) God only calls those who understand “the Bible”; (5) God only calls from among one religion… and so on. These are all lies; yet, because of our LACK OF FAITH… we believe those who tell us such things… rather than God. Other don't respond because they simply don’t believe God exists and therefore, any such "voice" can't be from Him. In both cases, when the call is heard… it is dismissed.

    I took a chance, once… and responded. The rest is, as they say, history. From that time on, I have responded EVERY time… because I now know who it is that is speaking.

    I also question your statement that Ministerial servants are men and women

    Well, let’s see: Supposedly, it was Paul who first brought up the issue of “ministerial servants,” in a letter to Timothy, yes? There, he gave some suggestions as to how ministerial servants should be (and I say, suggestions, because Paul… is not master over our faith), which suggestions make total sense. BUT… there is another who he actually REFERRED to as a “minister” (in English, Latin and Hebrew), and “servant” (in Greek) when writing to the MEN of the Roman congregation. To these, Paul wrote:

    “I RECOMMEND to you… PHOEBEour SISTERwho is aMINISTER to the congregation that is in Cenchreae, that you may welcome HER in the Lord… in a way worthy of the holy ones, and that YOU… may assist HER… in ANY matter where SHE may need YOU…”

    The PROBLEM… is that MOST religion is governed by MEN… and particularly men who don’t have a CLUE as to what a “minister”… or “ministerial servant” is. This is because they have no clue as to why such even existed:

    After the initial outpouring of holy spirit (at Pentecost 30CE – not 33CE, a date contrived by the WTBTS to make their "numbers" work!), those with money and possessions came and, in answer to the LOVE of that spirit, gave what they had to share with those who had less or nothing, particularly widows and orphans. Initially, things seemed to be going well, but after a time, the Greek-speaking widows began to complain that they were being “overlooked” in the distribution for the sake of the Hebrew-speaking widows. To ENSURE that the contributions were distributed FAIRLY… 7 men were appointed, by holy spirit, to be OVERSEERS… “of the distribution.” To AID these, other men… and WOMEN… were appointed as “servants” to “minister” to the widows and orphans in need, to see they their portions were delivered to them (as some were infirm and/or bed-ridden) as well as to see to any other needs these might have. And, of course, some HAD to be women… for to have a MAN visit an inform widow… was unacceptable.

    So, there were WOMEN also appointed… to “minister to the holy ones”… which is what a “minister[ial servant]” does. They were the ones who saw to the needs of the widows… and, if necessary, female orphans. Phoebe was one of these, and because of this, Paul told the MEN… to help HER however SHE needed it. Which meant that SHE… gave instructions and directions… to THEM.

    and that you come on here proclaiming clarity of the bible message given to you ,

    Well, proclaiming what I have been given by my Lord, yes. The "bible message"... I'm not so sure.

    Is this then a hidden agenda on your part on taking to yourself headship that the bible

    Ummmmm…. I have no hidden agenda; what I share is not mine - I am just an instrument; I don't know ANY of this stuff on my own. As for headship... I have no headship… with regard to the Bible or otherwise. Christ is my head and I am merely a member of his Body, and thus, a servant; to him as well as to his Household. And nothing more. Truly, I am a least one in the kingdom. Truly. My seat is SO far down at the end of table... well, let's just say "least one" is very accurate.

    and the lord may not wish you to have.

    Well, no, my Lord does not wish me to have headship... nor do I think he given me such, under any circumstances. He, did, however, give me faith so that, along with the little I had, I now have a portion about the size of a mustardseed. He also gave me his holy spirit… along with the fruits of that spirit and a couple/few of the GIFTS of that spirit, the most prominent being the ability to “discern spirits.” That I am a woman was, apparently, neither here nor there to him. That I had the faith to hear him… and then obey his direction (which has been to share what he tells me with those who are wishing and thirsting... some of whom are here), seemed to be all that was required.

    My gender, however, was totally irrelevant, something the religious leaders should have taken from their perusal of the Bible. For NEVER did God... or Christ... make a distinction of men over women. In fact, Christ kinda set his disciples straight on that matter when he spoke publicly to the Samaritan woman (which the disciples apparently had a problem with) AND... when he appeared FIRST to the women... who stood STEADFAST in their faith... but then to the men... who doubted even them. Had a one of them had a much faith as the women, he would have appeared to them... first.

    I respectively await your reply

    I believe your sincerity and therefore, have made this response with the same respect...

    as just another bewildered ex whose perhaps a little tired of the uncertainness of the promises of religion.

    As well you should be: VERY tired. Exhausted, in fact. By the great “loads” and “burdens” they place on men, while they themselves are unable to carry them! Religion is nothing more than a false “light,” disguised to great degrees to look like the True Light, but actually falling way short. Religion… IS a snare… set up by our Adversary, the Devil, to draw those who are the “children of light” away from the True Light, Christ. Oh, I know… they SAY they follow Christ and can/will lead you to Christ. The TRUTH, however, is that they lead you… to themselves. Which is away from Christ.

    You have one Leader, dear Woza… and one Teacher. One Fine Shepherd. Christ. The Holy Spirit of God who speaks to us from the heavens… JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… the Holy One of Israel… who is the GLORIFIED Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel… JAH… of Armies.

    Again, I bid you peace… and ears to hear… if you so wish it.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • wozadummy
    wozadummy

    Hi Aguest ,sorry to be so long replying ,been busy , I'm not going to anylyze point by point your reply for you are sincere in your beliefs but I would like to say that humility is really important to the lord .

    Not that all approach him on bended knee but that they have a capacity ,even an inner humility that we with our eyes may not see for people may be, say, in an important job for instance and that gives them a demeanor that may hide this potential humility that others wish to extinguish within themselves as a percieved weakness ,but the lord looks for this .

    Scriptually this can be demonstrated by the disciples trying to shoo away the children from the lord but he chastised them for the Kingdom belongs to such like ones ,that is ones willing to humble themselves .

    That is why I disagree with you confessing the lord expects faith first for faith is not gained unless knowlege is given first so a humble heart can respond to it .Otherwise we would be saying the lord is racially prejudiced in the end for he and the spirit are rejecting millions of chinese,indians etcetc for not having faith first when geographically they have'nt been given any knowlege because of where they live and never had the predominance of opportunity that you've had in America to her the lords voice - in other words how could the lord ever call on someone who has never heard of him simply because of their geographic locality! How can that one put faith in him ,you make itsound like it's their fault for not believing in him.

    It's that type of thinking that reminds me of the WTS who say Armaggeddon could be tomorrow and therefore condemning billions simply for their locality.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Again, I bid you peace!

    I would like to say that humility is really important to the lord .

    Indeed! I would TOTALLY agree! "Important," yes. "Initially necessary"... no. Which is what I believe I tried to relate to you. Forgive me, please, again, if I was unclear.

    Scriptually this can be demonstrated by the disciples trying to shoo away the children from the lord but he chastised them for the Kingdom belongs to such like ones ,that is ones willing to humble themselves.

    Again, I agree with you that humility is a desired quality; however, again, it is not necessary for one to be called… and, ultimately, chosen. Faith is the primary requirement… and your example above actually goes to prove that. For it was 12 of such disciples, more than a few of whom severely LACKED humility, who were first called... and chosen. Called and chosen, why? Because of their FAITH! These, when told by the Lord to drop their nets and/or leave some other occupation (which occupations were depended upon by their families)… did not ask why… did not stop to consider… but EXERCISED their FAITH… that they had found the messiah.

    At some time or another, however, almost every one of the 12 (excluding, perhaps, John), displayed some kind of lack of humility, a couple of them even seriously! But humility was NOT the lesson my Lord was teaching when he told the disciples that they must “become as YOUNG children;" because the truth is that even children are not necessarily humble. But, children DO... have faith. What my Lord MEANT was they were to leave off their acquired inhibitions which were standing in the way of their FAITH. For example, if you, a loving parent, tell your child, “Look, there, water! Walk on it!” your young child will immediately step out and attempt to do what you just told her she could. Without question, without reservation. Why? Out of TRUST for you and FAITH in you... which mean having no inhibitions in the way. She has FAITH… that what you her is TRUE and she has no doubt because she has no REASON to doubt. (NOTE: Noah built an ark because he KNEW that what God had told him... that a flood was imminent... was TRUE. He had NO reason to doubt... even though he had never SEEN a flood before - "though NOT beheld"!)

    However, if you were to tell the same thing to, say, your adult brother… he would most probably look at you as if you had lost your mind. Why? Because everything [he thinks] he knows says he CAN’T walk on water… and neither can you! True, he may be wrong, but he DOUBTS that what you say is TRUE. And it is this doubting… this LACK of faith in what you told him would occur… that prevents him from even trying.

    Dear Woza… you have been misled. And I am terribly sorry that that is the case.

    That is why I disagree with you confessing the lord expects faith first

    I understand that. But, well, let’s take a look. I'll use something you probably put YOUR faith in, the Bible:

    “For God loves the world SO much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising FAITH in him might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.”

    “As for the righteous, by his FAITH he will keep living.”

    “Now the Scripture, seeing in advance that God would declare people of the nations righteous… due to FAITH…”

    “Daughter, your FAITH has made you well…”

    “By FAITH… Abel offered a sacrifice of GREATER worth than Cain, through which [FAITH] he had witness borne to him that he was righteous…”

    “By FAITH… Enoch was transferred so as NOT to see death…”

    “Moreover, WITHOUT faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God well, for he that APPROACHES God… MUST believe that He IS…”

    “By FAITH… Noah, after being given divine warning of things ‘not yet beheld,’ showed godly fear and CONSTRUCTED AN ARK… for the saving of his household…”

    “By FAITH… Abraham… obeyed…”

    And I would encourage you to read the entire 11th Chapter of Hebrews if you still LACK the faith to understand this very fundamental truth.

    for faith is not gained unless knowlege is given first

    I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is entirely in error. FAITH is gained… i.e., follows… the thing HEARD. What “knowledge” was given the 12 BEFORE each “exercised FAITH” and followed my Lord only after HEARING him invite them? Did they, say, say to him, well, let's sit down and you show us how we're to know you're Messiah? Nope. They simply heard the invitation... dropped what they were doing... and went. Without question. Without... DOUBT. Indeed, my Lord once told them that he had many things to tell them, but they wouldn't be able to handle it just then... and that they would gain knowledge... LATER... from the Holy Spirit. In the meantime, he constantly had to REMIND them that because of LACK of FAITH… their learning process would be slow. On one occasion, he even reprimanded them for it:

    “When now, they came toward the other disciples, they noticed a great crowd about them and scribes disputing with them. But as soon as all the crowd caught sight of him they were stunned, and, running up to him, they began to greet him. And he asked them, ‘What are you disputing with them?’ And one of the crowd answered him: ‘Teacher, I brought my son to you because he has a speechless spirit; and whenever it seizes him it dashes him to the ground, and he foams and grinds his teeth and loses his strength. And I told your disciples to expel it, but THEY WERE NOT CAPABLE.’ In response he said to THEM: ‘O FAITHLESS generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you?’…
    The account goes on to state that man said to my Lord: “But if YOU can do anything, have pity on us and help us,” to which my Lord replied, “That expression ‘IF you can’! Why, ALL things can be to one… IF… one has FAITH.”

    so a humble heart can respond to it.

    I understand your position that a humble heart is a desirable quality, dear Woza, but I’m going share a SCRIPTURE with you that might help you see what is needed FIRST. It is Psalm 40:6, and although David is singing, he received such lyric from my Lord, who was, in fact, singing it THROUGH David. Please note that the NWT version is abridged, so I am going to quote the TRUE rendering (which can be found in the footnote):

    “Sacrifice and offering you did NOT want, but you PREPARED A BODY for me and you EXCAVATED EARS for me.”

    Now, why is this a significant scripture? Because it is telling what God WANTED from our Lord… and thus, from us: NOT sacrifice and offerings… but TO LISTEN. To HEAR. Why? Because FAITH… follows… the thing… HEARD. And for US… the thing HEARD… is from God’s Word… Christ.

    Otherwise we would be saying the lord is racially prejudiced in the end for he and the spirit are rejecting millions of chinese, Indians, etc. etc. for not having faith first when geographically they have'nt been given any knowlege because of where they live and never had the predominance of opportunity that you've had in America to her the lords voice

    You are entirely mistaken in this, dear Woza. First, my Lord doesn’t speak English as his first language, so that is a bit of arrogant assumption on your part. His earthly ancestry is Hebrew, which is the language he uses first. Second, although Hebrew, he is not limited by flesh to one: HE... the conduit by which God, the creator of language, speaks to ALL mankind... can speak ANY language known to man. This was in fact indicated by the gift of TONGUES, wherein men were given the ability to speak languages they formerly had NO knowledge of, in order to speak to those of different languages. Third, America has no specific patent on Christ - indeed, what of the Jews? Greeks? Romans? Corinthians? Thessalonians? Ephesians? Need I go on? The Bible was first written in Greek.. and then Latin... LONG before it was ever published in English! But that is neither here nor there as christians… those who rule with Christ... are not only taken “from among the sons of Israel,” but also out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people. And... there is no set number.

    Finally, God does not speak to us by means of a book… whether it be the Bible, the Quran, the Torah, some tribal wall painting, whathaveyou. God, who long ago spoke to us by means of His Prophets, speaks to us TODAY… by means of His Son. That is why my Lord said:

    “My sheep… KNOW… MY VOICE.”

    Again, faith, dear Woza… follows the thing HEARD… and the thing HEARD… is from the Word of God… Christ.

    in other words how could the lord ever call on someone who has never heard of him simply because of their geographic locality!

    Again, you have been misled. It does not work as you suggest: my Lord does not call on those who have heard OF him – he calls on those who HEAR him. And if what you're suggesting here is true, how then could he have called on Cyrus? Darius? These did not speak Hebrew... did not read the Law... and yet, were called and chosen. Anointed. How can that have been, if what you say is correct? You are limiting God and Christ, dear Woza, with absolutely no grounds for doing so.

    How can that one put faith in him

    They put faith in HIM... based on what they HEAR… from him.

    you make it sound like it's their fault for not believing in him.

    And for some, that is the case: they don’t even believe in him. For others, however, perhaps including even you, although they believe IN him… they don’t LISTEN TO HIM… when he speaks to them. Why? Because they were not taught that he even SPEAKS! In fact, we have been taught just the opposite, haven’t we? Indeed, we have been taught that DEMONS can and do speak… but GOD?! Christ?! Oh, no! I ask you, who has more power: God and Christ? Or demons? If, then, demons can and do speak, how IS IT that “we” say God… and Christ… can’t… and don’t? How IS that? It is a lie… and one of THE most basest of lies at that. You have been MISLED.

    It's that type of thinking that reminds me of the WTS who say Armaggeddon could be tomorrow and therefore condemning billions simply for their locality.

    You perceive me as condemning someone. How is that? Where have I done that? I have never done such a thing, and certainly not on this thread. This thread was concerning the Bride of Christ… who they are, what identifies them… and who they are not… and how we know. That one is not a “christian” does NOT mean that one will not gain life – NOT AT ALL! I never said that, never intimated that… and the only reason you or anyone else could come to such a conclusion is because of what OTHERS have taught you.

    My assignment, dear Woza… is to INVITE… NOT to judge or condemn… and certainly NOT to close the door in front of ANYONE… whether one person or billions. The Most Holy One of Israel shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it: for whatever reason, from whatever “tribe,” at whatever time, in whatever place or circumstance.

    I would exhort you to not jump on that “who do you think you are that you’re better then me,” wagon – it serves no benefit to anyone: you… or the person you perceive thinks they are “better” than you, which, in this case, appears to be me. I have no such illusion; rather, I am your SERVANT, as I have plainly stated. That I speak with “boldness” is merely a manifestation of the Spirit of God in me… as HE directs me. I share what I am given EXACTLY as I am given it. I do not veer to the left or veer to the right. I do not change it or alter it. That is what OTHERS have done… and what has been the cause of your misleading to begin with. I am not your “enemy,” truly. I am only a servant… and a least one, at that.

    I bid you peace.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • wozadummy
    wozadummy

    Well I could'nt read all of your post for you see it's pointless for you are wrong ,plainly you talk in circles ,you acknowlege "the thing heard" is needed first and yet that is exactly what I was saying and then you still go on about faith comes first .

    Humility is needed to hear and accept so one can have faith .And to say I'm arrogant -well how dare you, I give you an opportunity to discuss thoughts and you insult me!

    It's plain for all to see here you lack the humility "your" lord requires from all who approach and are accepted by him .You are just another teller of your own delusional stories ,same old tactic ,if you don't agree with someone you just rubbish them go back to the WTS you'll fit in just fine .

  • eclipse
    eclipse
    2. Know that the WTBTS is a false prophet, led by false "christs" (false anointed)... whose leaders have seated themselves in the "seat of Moses"...

    This has been the only thing so far ,that you have written, that I actually agree with, Aguest.

  • oompa
    oompa

    It would be so much better/easier if the anointed all hat something like the Arby's red hat floating over their head like on TV commercials. A halo would be OK, but that is sooo overdone in art.

    or maybe a mark on their forehead or foreskin.....oompa

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