by flipper 30 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
A suggestion for the future: Instead of printing off the information from Bowen's site, follow one of the links there and print it off from one of the online newspapers that ran the AP story. There's even one from Fox News on there.
Doing so removes the "well you can't trust this, it came from an apostate" excuse...some may be more likely to read it.
Congratulations Flipper!
I am very angry that so few JWs know about this settlement. Most of them are in a permanent news blackout.
Keep it up. Unfortunately, you have to rub their face in this like a dog in its poo poo. I don't think this is cruel at all but a necessity.
LHG
I don't think it's silly at all bringing this up because it shows a major flaw in the system --the 2 witness rule....
which is damn rigid in these cases!
but when you sin by smoking or immorality there is no one person comes to you, then two , bla bla bla it's straight to the elders!
Bumble bee said he'll talk to his elder friends and they'll all ask themselves questions...;what i truly think is HE WOULDN'T DARE!
how many of you guys actually admitted you were doubting doctrine while still in and wanting to stay in (for all the wrong reasons)??
the furthest i ever went was saying " sometimes i WONDER if armageddon will really happen".....that was enough to have the brothers eyeballs popping out of their sockets in amazement.
" Then the elder went into damage control mode, he said, " Well, there is child molestation in every religion. You can't get away from it. "
I agree with this statement from the elder, but its how the religious organisation deals with it that matters. For instance trying to cover up allegations & failing to report them to the police when there is a strong claim by the victim. Out of court settlements & gag orders on the victims just to try and keep the matter quiet and preserve the image of the organisation. No these are not acceptable ways of dealing with this matter of child abuse.
I remember seeing a TV documentary once (called Panorama) about JW pedophiles, all the accusations, the victims, the congregations and the guilty parties were all named. The next day at the KH there was no mention of the content of the TV programme the night before, there was no explanation for the bad way the Org dealt with these cases, no apology to the victims families or the rest of the JW members, no admission of guilt, not anything of a humble nature at all. I felt i as an active & loyal member of the organisation deserved some sort of explanation for what i saw on that programme, but of course like everybody else got nothing.
Mr . FLIPPER; excellent work I couldn't have done better myself. I know how good you feel, and i like your nerve. it was easy right... happy hunting john
Good job, Mr. F!
Not strange or unusual - just shows how the organization doesn't even bother to prepare their own members to rebut this information. I had an elder at the door a few weeks ago who also had not heard about the settlements. His tack was the same - "look at the Catholic Church! All that information comes from apostates!"
Pretty weak reasoning, eh?
I think what you did was very good and the more we all do it the better!
Well let's see how Mr. Flipper did.
1. Be prepared. Had info with him in truck, ready to go.
2. Be friendly & establish common ground. "I have some relatives in your church,..."
3. Ask a thought provoking question without putting them personally on the spot: "Have you heard about this?"
4. Be ready for "conversation stoppers": "This news report was in many newspapers across America in May and the actual settlements did in fact take place, it's documented."
5. Be tactful, but do not compromise: "Yes I am. And believe me, I certainly have one."
Dang Mr. Flipper, if I was the School Overseer here, I'd say you get "G"s all the way 'round.
Open Mind
SASS MY FRASS- I feel that I was respectful to the elder. Used a respectful tone of voice. I wasn't being aggressive, in a mean way, just assertive in my beliefs as they do to us at the door. I used this same tactic on an elder and his wife who came to my door 3 months ago, and kept them talking about the molesation settlements for 30 minutes. I don't mind that this elder thinks I disrespected his magazines. He disrespects us by disrespecting the truth of the child molestation settlements and information I was bringing him. Respect and disrespect go both ways, witnesses included.
WILL POWER- Thanks. Yes I need to include the court documents too. I need to get one of their false religion tracts too. If any of you have extra, please pm me, and I will give you my mailing address to send it to. Thanks.
SIR 82- Yes I'll have to do that. But even the newspaper articles from their own newspapers online, most of them still quoted Bill Bowen in the articles. So this elder I talked with just would scan the article, see Bill Bowen's name and immediately jump to an opinion. These witnesses are gonna believe or noy believe what they want to. We can't control that. If it's negative towards their organization, no matter what the source, they go into defense mode.
LONG HAIR GAL- Thanks for the kind words. I too, having been raised in the witnesses am angry that many witnesses don't know about this. They are in a permanent news blackout I believe. Good analogy on your part. And yes, I will keep rubbing it in their face like dog poo poo, until they stop $hitting on their own children's innocence and safety, with their underhanded tactics. I'm in this for the long term.
4 DIGIT CODE- I agree with you that most of us didn't have the nerve to admit we doubted doctrine when still in the witnesses. I never heard about these molestation problems in the organization until after I got out. I remember saying once as you did, while still a witness , " I wonder if Armageddon will ever happen?" And yeah, getting strange looks from people.
LFCVIKING- I agree with you completely. All the witness leaders are concerned about is the image of the organization, so they don't lose more members, or offend new recruits. That's precisely why they sent out word to congregations in 2002, forbidding them to watch the expose' of the child molestation problem in the organization on the Dateline program. They are scared $hitless that if too many members find out, word will get around, then they will lose even more members. Image control, image control, image control.
JOHNNY CIP- THanks, John. Believe me, the longer I've been out of the organization, it gets easier to do this, expose their junk. Peace.
BIZZY BEE- Thanks, BIZZY. So, I'm assuming from what you are saying then, that this is probably the company line being handed down to the rank and file members, from the governing body. That news of these molestation settlements were put out by " apostates ", so they can't be believed. So sick. Yes, it is weak , lame reasoning.
OPEN MIND- Thank you so much sir school overseer for your good marks. Can I now move on to my next point to work on and give another talk ? LOL! Thanks ! Peace out, thanks for all your comments. Keep em comin"
Good 'work'.
Keep on truckin'.
Incidently, if you have Barb's CD, perhaps you could keep that in your file as well.
sKally
Way to go!
