FORGIVENESS (page 2)

r.a.m.

Yes, you should forgive others even if they haven't expressed remorse. Even if they deny they did wrong.

Jesus died for all people knowing that most of them would not accept him. His death is for everyone, even while they were sinning. What if he said he couldn't die for us unless we first admit our wrongdoing? Where would we be? He died for us while we were not remorseful. He hoped we would eventually accept his offer. We can do that to.

Can you forget? I don't even think God would want that. Otherwise, how would you learn from it? Forgiveness teaches us humility, love, selflessness, peace, endurance, faith, and all the fruits. If we forget, we would really miss out on understanding God's love.

Also, once we are able to forgive, God helps us to find peace with the situation. And we can honestly feel even a love for the offender. Even when they have done terrible things to us.

I don't think we are expected to go out of our way to then hang out with that person, but we can still be good to them.

summer

Not knowing if you still believe in the Bible...

Matthew 18: 21-22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: But until seventy times seven.

Much easier said than done, I agree. Still a good thought to keep on the back burner:-)

James Free

"Are you obligated to forgive someone......if they DO NOT ASK for forgiveness......if they show NO REMORSE for the transgression"

Lots of good answers so far. I always wondered about this when I was a JW, because they preach God does not forgive unrepentant ones, and this seems to be backed up many places in the Bible.

2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

It is different to the words of Christ quoted by others. It is just one of the many contradictions of thought in the Bible.

LongHairGal

Tula,

My answer would be 'No' if the transgression is an ongoing one. It all depends on what the transgression was, how many times it happened and the attitude of the one who did it.

The JWs published articles on forgiveness some years back. The gist of the articles said that the idea is to let go of the hatred/resentfulness. This makes perfect sense because hatred is only hurting you. What the articles DID clarify is that the guilty person would NOT be welcomed back as your friend or intimate associate.

These articles were a great relief to many misguided JWs who imagined they had to forgive somebody who kept doing the same thing over and over. They also put certain screwed up or arrogant JWs in their place who thought they could be doing the same things over and over again to certain people and expect to be welcomed as their friend. Yeah, sure.

There is a lot of dysfunction in this religion. Some people acted as martyrs or masochists swallowing all kinds of abuse and others were the arrogant perpetrators of abuse. I am not just referring to scandals such as sexual abuse, I am referring to the everyday nastiness that came from certain hypocritical JWs who heap abuse on people around them and then think because they go door to door and make their meetings that all is forgiven.

LHG

r.a.m.

Some scriptures...

Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Jonh 20:23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

V1710

In reference to my previous post on forgiveness I feel it's important to forget, particularly when it comes to forgiving ourselves. Too many times we rehash mistakes over and over in our minds beating ourselves up for simple human error.

Forgiving and forgetting (not calling to mind) doesn't mean that you ever have to have a relationship or anything to do with the offender or put yourself in harms way. It means that one has let go of all anger, resentment and hurt.

"Those who cannot forgive others break the bridge over which they themselves must pass~Confucious

Simple steps to forgiveness:

Forgive from the heart first. If you can find it in your heart to forgive, you can express it later in words or actions.

Don't hold a 'grudge' Think of a grude as a five hundred pound monster. The effort required to hold it is enormous. Write the feelings for your grudge in a letter, then toss it into the fireplace or flush it down the toilet. You'll feel more powerful than the beast itself.

Jeanette

WTWizard

There are times where it is appropriate to forgive someone even if they do not seek it, and one of these is where it is blatantly obvious that the person was under pressure when they made a mistake. People that are doing their reasonable best, and sometimes then some, to accomplish what we are also trying to accomplish, are likely to make a misjudgment at times or do or say something stupid. Sometimes a correction is needed so they can learn from their mistakes, but we don't need to bash them to death or hold grudges. Even in cases where a person makes the same stupid mistake repeatedly, sometimes the best thing is to wait and see. Predicting the end by date repeatedly, something this board has had a few people do, usually results in its own punishment when the prediction goes out of date.

But, there are blatantly unforgivable offenses. These are when a person or organization meant to harm us. They did not act foolishly or under pressure, but out of malice. The Watchtower Society and its leaders fit this category. They did not act because of pressure or ignorance, but were willful and deliberate and were out to scam and hurt innocent victims. Government leaders that insist on dumbing us down or unnecessarily medicating whole populations just for a few companies to get rich also fit this category, as do those tyrants that usurp power from people. They act out of malice and power hunger and not stupidity or pressure, so they too deserve no forgiveness.

Also, we may choose not to forgive parents who have during our whole lifetimes been abusive and seeking excessive control. We might forgive them if they were Witlesses and are now seeking out, since they were misled. Or, if the parents were abusive independently of the cult or joined the cult to seek to control and abuse us, it is apparent that they meant to hurt us. Giving honor to mean-spirited parents just does not make sense, no matter what the Bible says. That is up to each individual to discern for ourselves.

poppers

What blueviceroy said.

Tyrone van leyen

We can say we forgive someone, and let go, but when we think about it, something has been taken from us. We can instantly go back into hating again if the topic is brought up or something reminds us of the trasgression. Therefore have we really forgiven. What do we do when the same person whom we have forgiven continues to be in your face and repeating the same offense. Sometimes I think a punch in the head is the only answer. Sometimes.

Some folks just like to throw others off balance and keep them that way. You need peace to suceed and be in touch with your inner pilot. Some folks are just too jealous or rotten to let you do it. You can disappear but have you effectively dealt with the situation? Sometimes letting things go is a sign that tells these deviant disturbers that you are a punching bag for everyone.

Sometimes transgressions can be forgiven in honesty when mistakes are made or unintentional. Sometimes you have to teach a blockhead a lesson they will never forget.

tula

These are very good answers and I thank you all for responding. Your answers should not be geared wondering whether I am a christian. Your answers should be from your own point of view...whether it is from any other philosophy or religion or non-religion.

I was a JW, because they preach God does not forgive unrepentant ones

are there scriptures to uphold this?

But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

doesn't this make it obligatory? For nvrgnbk:

I have to say the word "obligated" complicates this for me

times where it is appropriate to forgive someone even if they do not seek it

But, there are blatantly unforgivable offenses

Would this indicate that we should use discernment and judge what kind of transgression it is? How do you make that judgement? By the number of people the transgression affects? Or that the course of one's whole life is dramatically altered by the transgression?

Is it God alone who is permitted not to forgive? If we are in his image, and that includes the emotional ranges, then if he finds certain offenses UNFORGIVABLE, how are we expected to be better than God and forgive all?

FORGIVENESS

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