Free Speech/Nathan

by Guest with Questions 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • changeling
    changeling

    I don't know what prompted all this, but I think we all have a right to express our views and opinions in a respectful manner.

    changeling

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    While the following quotations are those of Francois-Marie Arouet [Voltaire], and do not necessarily reflect every aspect of my personal philosophy, I am pleased that he has expressed himself in a manner reflective of my general thinking. Likewise, and all the more so, Nathan, as he is my friend and I am grateful to him.

    I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it
    possible for you to continue to write.

    To M. le Riche, February 6, 1770

    [I dissaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
    your right to say it.]

    Attributed to S.G. Talentyre, in the biography
    THE FRIENDS OF VOLTAIRE

    Atheist: A name given by theologians to whoever differs
    from them in their ideas concerning the divinity, or refuses
    to believe in it in the form of which, in the emptiness of their
    infallible pates, they have resolved to present it to him. As a
    rule an Atheist is any or every man who does not believe in
    the God of the priests.

    "Atheist"

    To worship God and leave every other man free to worship
    Him in his own way; to love one's neighbor, enlightening
    them if one can and pitying those who remain in error; to
    dismiss as immaterial all questions that would have given
    us no trouble if no importance had been attached to them -
    this is my religion, it is worth all your systems and symbols.

    To an unknown correspondent, January 5, 1759

    THE GREAT THOUGHTS
    compiled by George Seldes, 1985

    Nathan has presented information that has allowed me to broaden my horizons philosophically, intellectually and spiritually. The WTB&TS deems such out-of-the-box musings anathema, yet great learning has not driven me to madness but to an enlightenment heretofore unrealized by the likes of my finite cranially capacities. I know nothing and yet the world has opened up to me.

    Nathan, in my elevated opinion [IMEO], is a "god"send!

    CoCo

  • Scully
    Scully
    If we are stating our personal beliefs (Christians that is)

    So are you saying that only Christians have the right to express personal beliefs?

    and someone is strongly against it and the conversation starts to break down into name calling or hurtful feelings,

    Frankly, I didn't notice any "name calling" on Nathan's part at all. I noticed that behaviour coming from you. As for the hurtful feelings, that also, was coming from you.

    You made the choice to have hurt feelings. It may not have been a conscious choice, it may have been a "reaction", but you still have the opportunity to stand back and decide how you will respond, or not.

    we should end the conversation there and try as hard as we can on our part to keep the peace.

    Or, as you did, choose to start a whole new thread about it to drag the debate out even longer.

    I am all for debating God/No God,

    Sure you are, and Linda's funeral is on Monday at 9:30 am.

    but I draw the line when it gets heated or into name calling.

    Except when you start the name calling, of course.

    I think we (believers and unbelievers) can equally make intelligent points for either case but ultimately our belief is still a personal choice we make. And no matter which one it is, should be respected by others.

    An admirable goal, if only it was so easy to practice what you preach.

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Ooops Scully!

    That was not lovely lil who resorted to name calling and getting offended. That was "Guest with Questions". I think lovely lil was arguing for the opposite!

    Cog

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons,
    sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky,
    people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive
    stories, and you say that WE are the ones that need help?
    -- Mark Twain

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    scully,

    Please go back to the first post and then you will understand my comment. You are pulling my entire post out of context as someone has already pointed out. There is absolutely nothing in my post that anyone who does not believe in God can find offensive, unless of course they cut and paste selective parts to try to make it say something it does not....... you know like you did.

    I was not involved in the other thread at all. My simple statement is both parties, for God/and against are entitled to their personal opinions and should be given respect as people and be allowed to present their own arguements to support thier view without anyone calling them names or insulting them in any way. I never said anyone HAD called someone a name. I don't know if anyone did, but someone felt insulted and that is why this thread was started.

    And, if you re-read my post you will see I am opologetic towards those who do not beleive in God because I understand how we Christians (myself included) can come off as haughty and self-righteous sometimes and how this is a put off for those who do not believe in God. I hope this clears up my post. Anyway, peace to you, Lilly

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    scully,

    I just re-read your post where you copied and pasted my words and I am very confused. What are you talking about with me and Nathan? I was not on that thread at all. You said I resorted to name calling first? I think you are confusing me with someone else. Again, I was not involved in that other thread at all. I simply responded to this thread and I was argueing the opposite point that you believe I was for. Please read the posts more carefully next time. Starting at the beginning so that you know who started the thread, it was not me.

    And where did I ever say only Christians have the right to state their beliefs? I said, when we (Christians) state our beliefs we need to be careful not to be offensive to those who are not believers. But nowhere in my post do I say only we Christians should be able to state our beliefs. You are cutting and pasting to make my post say something it does not. Lilly

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    I will admit that I was quite shocked when I read what Nathan said (that caused all this) because I just did not see the signs OR recognize any of the prior warnings to "beware" of posters and possible scams. I had absoltuely NO clue and It hit me right between the eyes....BUT, knowing his history and reading all his sensible posts in the past....this attack on Trevor's credibility HAD to have some valid merit or NN would not have said anything. It only stands to reason that he MUST have had some strong evidence to have said anything at all.

    It would not have been the way *I* would have chosen to bring this to the table.....but then....his post certainly cut to the heart of the matter didn't it? No pussy-footing around! It WAS now "out there" and up for discussion. We ALL have our own personalities and writing styles----which makes each of us unique in our own way. I didn't get the sense of anything pointedly mean-spirited (as we have seen here A LOT lately) ----and was just presenting what HE knew...in HIS way. And truly....does his being an atheist have anything to do with anything? I am a Christian and feel very strongly about MY beliefs.....but what someone ELSE chooses to believe, really has NO bearing at all on me. If a poster treats me with respect---even when disagreeing with something I have said---I have no problem with that.

  • uwishufish
    uwishufish

    As another poster once said. Can God create a rock so large that he can't move it? Does this statement disprove omnipotence?

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Here's to Nathan I just wish we'd known sooner!

    Ian

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