Shunning is worse than the worst crime possible

by Richie 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  nytelecom1

  get over it................
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  Richie

  A very precise application of 1 Cor. chapter 5!! Thanks Englishman - it is so clear how the Society has misapplied it to their own benefit by administering the fear factor in all of its members...
  Vita, you were mentioning the fact that the bible indicates that associating with unbelievers is some kind of a sin. Of course in the context of hanging around and socializing with individuals (unbelievers) who are known to be criminals, fornicators, thieves and the like, it is very wise to flee from these persons. However, when one does not have the "truth", of course it has always been awkward to be "close" to Witnesses and their regimented form of life cannot go hand in hand with a non-witness, but those conditions are self-imposed by the Borg and not by the individual who is serving God in his free capacity without being part of the Society.
  So in answer to your question, the Bible's context of not associating with unbelievers would pertain to those who persist in deliberate sins. In that sense I certainly agree with the bible, but in my case and in so many other cases (most of them), the disfellowshipping procedure is so misdirected that it always includes the total disassociation from close family members as well.
  In addition to all that; the only thing I am doing "wrong" is being df'd and not going to meetings anymore, but at the same time I am leading a life free from adultery, thievery, mischief and focus myself in helping others in any way I can... Should my family stay away from me?? This question is self-explanatory in that it doesn't merit any answer because it is so grossly ridiculous and unloving!
  Welcome to the real world where love abounds...

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
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  Richie

  Thanks so much Lisa for your post. I feel so bad for you and your mom and how her own daughter neglects her and treats her worse than a real criminal. Is this the loving thing to do? You're so right, it is NOT, and in God's eyes it's something detestable I am sure!
  I realize that your mother has more experience and perhaps is able to "cope" with her daughter's attitude, yet believe me, the older a person gets, the harder it is to endure. Why do I say this? Because, unlike children, older people or parents have acquired an enormous amount of life experience and it is this wealth of accumulated knowledge, emotion, love and compassion which has given them the maturity to understand things in a more perfect sense.
  You see, when children get hurt - they are not able to comprehend and accept it at face value because of their ineptness and unexperience in life at that point in time. On the other hand, your mother must be hurt and suffers emotionally. She may not show it outwardly, but I am sure that she is ripped apart with sadness inside of her... Doesn't the bible command us to take care of our parents, especially when they grow older and not only that; because of your dear parents do you have life, including your sister! How dare she treat her in a denegrating and disrespectful way! By turning her back on her mother, she only shows disloyalty to her God, as even the (Pharisaical) Society admits that a loving relationship with your closest relatives is a matter of personal conscience.
  The only thing that I can suggest Lisa is to stay very close to your mother and comfort her all the way, show her your love at all times, she deserves it no matter what! You were created from love and out of love you existed because of her...

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
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  Richie

  Dear HappyHeathen,
  So your daughter decided to join the Witnesses 10 years ago and now you know what real love means! By their love you will recognize them, how sad!! Taking you out to dinner under the condition that it would be the last time ever.., and it had been the last time for at least 10 years! You call upon any normal perosn in the whole wide world and ask that person an intelligent question whether what your daughter did is abhorrently wrong; I can without hesitation say that ALL of any sane persons would call this ridiculous to say the least!!
  Aren't you happy not to be associated with this religion anymore?? I am terribly sad that you have lost your daughter and fearfully I am "looking forward" to the same fate, that's why I was seriously thinking of mailing my 2 daughters (who are shunning me now) an official death notice advising them that I have now died...
  I didn't do that of course, but isn't it strange how many things we think and do when we are coping with true anger?
  Your daughter has no right to exclude you from her love by treating you as a criminal! Maybe, perhaps she might come to her senses as time goes on, but then again I am dreaming in technocolor, sad to say. But then, who knows maybe the Society will change their ways again and "see the light" - How happy the father of the prodigal son was when he noticed his disfellowshipped son in the distance.... he IMMEDIATELY ran toward him and embraced him, showing him the love that he ought to show because he was the father of his son!

  Keep strong and take care...

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
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  HappyHeathen

  Richie,
  Thanks for your kind words. It feels so good to vent! And only you people really understand. Years back, when my daughter first disassociated me, I confided in a few of my friends – they tried to be sympathetic as best they could but somehow I felt I was being “judged” in some strange way for ever having been in that bizarre cult. Only ex-JW’s can truly comprehend how being in that religion can leave your life and family in ruins through no fault of your own. So I stopped talking to anyone about her.

  Richie, there is always hope for your daughters, so don’t give up on them. Everyone in my family except my mom stopped speaking to me for three years when I was disfellowshipped. Then gradually, one by one, they made their exits, too. Those were painful years, but now they seem like a bad dream that has faded with time. Except for the loss of my daughter, we are a happy, close family again. And I have two sons with my second husband now.

  And you’re right, I would never, ever want to go back. Sometimes I have nightmares of finding myself back in the kingdom hall sitting through a WT study or waiting to go in service with that old feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach. Does anyone else ever have those nightmares?

  Richie, bless you, you sound like such a sweetie.

  HH
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  Englishman

  NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition

  Wonderful!

  Have you seen "Sliding doors"?

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
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  Naeblis

  hah! I loved Sliding Doors :)
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  nelly136

  I put up with the 'contact when it suits' for years
  when I moved I deliberately cut contact altogether with that part of my jw family, I cant describe the relief.
  I dont have to let my daughter go stay now and worry about the abusive discipline that might be dished out as and when suits, or the
  thought that shes being encouraged to keep any slappings/hidings a secret in case I find out and stop her visiting, or listen to her crying her heart out that once again shes been made to feel inferior to the 'proper jw' step grandchildren.
  My only regret is that I didnt hear about the way my daughter was being treated by her own grandmother or the break would have come a lot sooner, more fool me for thinking a leopard could ever change it spots and that my child would get better treatment than I did as a kid
  nelly
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  Richie

  Happy Heathen, Thanks so much for your post..
  It's funny that you talked about having nightmares sometimes...you know what? I had a dream last night about the exact same thing, where I once again was involved in attending meetings and afterwards preparing for fieldservice (I always get a knot in my stomach when I had to say the prayer - I guess I already had my doubts for such a long time; that's why I imagined that God was slowly started to punish me). I also dreamt that I wasn't prepared to do the school meeting - in fact I did not prepare any parts and I had to do the counseling - to make matters worse, some brothers even cancelled their talks...finally I woke up and was happy it was just a dream..
  I know that feeling of dread; it was almost constant, especially since I was an elder (school overseer) and sometimes I had to do the Watchtower study. A few times I did not prepare for the school and at the same time 2 brothers cancelled at the last minute..., wooow having a sunk feeling then! In all cases I was able to find other brothers who did fill in at the ring of the bell. Another scary feeling I always had was having to say the prayer before a circuit assembly crowd. I was supposed to give a talk at the circuit assembly in Feb 2000 and also say the prayer at the beginning of the afternoon session: another of those dreadful feelings haunted me for a long time thinking about that event! Fortunately for me, I resigned as an elder in January 2000 so I didn't have further responsibilities anymore afterwards...
  It's true HH, when you speak to wordly friends about our difficulties within our religion: they are not able to put themselves completely in our shoes so they cannot perceive our way of thinking, because almost literally we were not part of the world before and things we used to be doing were strange and incomprehensible to them.
  I have however spoken at length to one friend and his reaction was predictable in that he found this religion a dangerous cult and was shaking his head in disbelief, but still it did not go deep enough for him to be able to fully grasp the underlying scope of importance and the damage it did to us in general.

  I doubt if my 2 daughters would ever leave the Borg; my stepdaughter is a regular pioneer for many years and her husband is a young and agressive elder (young elders usually want to prove to themselves how "strict" they are and they often go by the book and show less compassion). My second daughter, who has a son (my first grandson) is married to a ministerial servant who is doing everything possible to become an elder. His father is a well known elder, who was the presiding overseer of his congregation. So you can imagine HH why I said to you that it is difficult for me to believe that they will ever see the other side of the truth and quit the organization for good. That's what makes me so angry: they cannot force me to come back - my feeling is dead for the "truth" - I have no desire to return and become a zombie again and not able to live my life freely as I should and as everybody should for that matter.
  My mother stopped speaking to me a long time ago (I've posted the story in my previous threads) and I do not even know whether she is alive or not whereas my two brothers who live in Holland, do not want to speak to me either. As you so truthfully said, this post has as it were "saved" my sanity in that I can vent my frustration, anger and deep feelings in the open and I know that we all receive a compassionate feedback by people on this board who have very similar experiences and are thus able to lend a hearing ear of mutual understanding. This gives us a renewed zest for hope and strength on which to build our new lives with genuine trust based on freedom of thought and will.

  Again thanks for your kind words HappyHeathen - take care my dear!

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
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  HappyHeathen

  Richie,
  You are a person of strong character to walk away from the org with so much to lose. I applaud you for being true to yourself.

  Nelly126,
  Removing your daughter from her grandmother's influence and physical abuse is the right thing to do. That is another unfortunate thing about J.W's -- many are so ignorant about more enlightened ways of bringing up children. I cringed when I saw how many mothers at the KH would smack their children in front of everyone because they were frustrated that the kid wouldn't sit perfectly still during the meetings. But then it's obvious the WT doesn't value children by the way their needs are ignored.

  Englishman,
  Saw "Sliding Doors" and loved it. Also been a Monty Python fan for 30 years.