by Richie 25 Replies latest jw friends
Jukief....
Just wanted to find out if you received a copy of that particular letter which the Society sent a friend of yours where it said that it would be acceptable to associate with family members while disfellowshipped?
Would love to see a copy!!
:*) Richie
Hi Ritchie:
I have put an article on Apostasy on this discussion forum. It is twenty-two pages long. A long read I know. But it covers this subject of Disfellowshipping with the marking and shunning practice. Also one other on Branding others Apostate. In my heart of hearts I feel it shows that this practice was for the first century Christians not for the modern day one's. If you get time read those articles and let me know your feelings on them. Bill Parker
Here a link to Bill's article: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=14251&site=3
let the shun shine in...
It is a great challenge for someone to make an own decision of what he believes.
That means defacto that a person who is JW decides to leave the congregation - not because he makes a distance from Jehovah or Christ - no. His conscience troubles him stying "in the truth" as the things he watches he cant accept with his cristian feeling of what is good or worse.
The elders are held to disfellowship persons who do so act.
That includes the situation that the conscience of someone is no appreciated. And where is blind faith given as doctrine in the greek scriptures?.
They want to make you accepting all things which come downstream from Brooklyn as "latest light" which someone has to obey too.
And that is something like idolatry.
The guys in the marblehouses - see the German branch - keep the same manner like the catholic church.
They demand absolute obedience and claim for themselves that they have a status like Moses had.
But if 1914 is a failure so all other things are wrong too and Christ has not approached to realize his kingdom.
So the "slave" is not throwned over the others and must be found in a good position that underscores the acceptance of Christ when he comes.
Then - yes then and not before he will be set over everything.
Today it seems more that they are doing everything to hurt the brethren. And they show ignorance to Jehovahs great vision that about the end nobody may make his calculations.
Everything into this direction went wrong in the past. No year came through and the file and rank JW was led into wrong thinking like the children from Hameln were led into the mountains by the rat-hunter in midage and disappeared forever.
Why dont they accept that a person who believes in Jehovah and his purpose does not have the right to cultivate an own faith that depends on reading the bible, studying it - also in regard to the publications of the WTBS, but finding an own standing in what he might believe.
Christian freedom includes the right to believe. And believing is something very private which can be supported by services from the organisation. But that should be done on a very carefully way and not the way which is practiced.
I make a fist in my pocket when I read in nowadays publications "that in the 20ies of the last century the brothers beleived in a pyramid story".
Why did they believe it? Because CT Russell and JF Rutherford were shaping this doctrine.
What do I learn therefrom?
Those in the ivory towers may make their teachings like they want - changing today and tomorrow - as often as it is necessary for their targets which are not open to file and ranks in the local congragation.
See the change of the blood doctrine, vaccinations, behavior in schools etc. They changed as much as they could set through. To keep the flock further on their meadow.
And now comes internet, the greates fact library in the world and takes the chainsew to devaste the fat meadows by facts.
This brings many JWs an another level of thinking. But the grwon up feeling of what is right still is in the persons.
I think that those who really make their sorrows of what is happening are no apostates or Satanlike as they want to find Jehovahs favour under circumstances which tret their conscience.
Just the UN-thing is so disgusting and devasting and a hypocrycy that you cant eat so much as you need to efract.
So I only can counsel those readers in the ivory towers to make a personal line for what is given and what should be.
I would not carry any responsibility on that thing.
I had had some dicussions with travelling overseers in europe and I know that they make the same questions regarding the personal conscience and the 1914 thing. Sure they obey their directors but they have doubts and those doubts get more and more and the facts are not so less that you can sweep them under the carpet.
There is something wrong in Danmark, spoken with Hamlets words.
And the earlier they change their behavior the better it would be to treat those believing ones.
But I guess there is less difference between the religious leaders in the days of Isaia or Christ. They see their "field" and put their own fences around. In the past aroiund the law of Moses, tody around the law of the Christ.
Back to shunning: To keep it could be given in cases where people keep their false acting - adultery and so on.
But to shun someone only because he does not believe what a lightmachine produces - that is something worse.
I think that those who use their brain, conscience and heart to set something udner question has more value than to believe everything by a blind faith. Later they can say: Lord, your slave has given us this worse food.
But the Lord would say: and why have you eaten it and kept it in your household?
So we have responsibility in everything we believe.
And somone who has doubts - there are reasons why they exist.
Hi KLaus:
Under no circumstances should there be any disfellowshippings with it's subsequent Marking and Shunning practices today. Afterall who is Jehovah's appointed judge today? Is it not Christ Jesus? Look at John 5:22 ..."not even The Father Judges anyone,but He has given ALL JUDGMENT to the Son" Verse 27 "and He gave Him authority to execute Judgment." Not even Jehovah judges anyone today. So if HE doesn't isn,t it tantamount to "sitting down in the Temple of God professing to be God"when anyone does it today.? Isn't that characteristic of the man of lawlessness? Isn't it running ahead of Jehovah's arrange ment and His appointed judge? It doesn't say that He has appointed any so called "Faithful Slave Class" as judges today. There is a good reason for that! First century Christian were empowered by Jehovah to read the heart of individuals. No one today has that particular ability. All the gifts of the spirit ended in the first century. Notice verse 28 of Matthew 13 dealing with the parable of the wheat and the weeds. ..."Do you want us,then to go and gather them up" What did He tell them? Did He say "Go ahead?" No! He didn't did he.? He said: "NO;lest while gathering the weeds you root up the wheat with them.". They would do that because today no one can read the heart! Who's job was it to clean up the congregations world wide? Read verse's 41-43 of Matthew 13.It is Jesus who sends forth the angels to do the clean-up work. That job is not given to anyone today. They were to be allowed to "Grow together" as verse 30 pointed out. Anyone involved in the disfellowshipping practice today who causes others to mark and shun other members of the flock is in very serious trouble. I wouldn't touch that stand with a ten foot pole not even if someone else was hanging on to the pole. Bill Parker
Richie,
Don't give up on your daughters. My father disassociated 10 years before he died. At first I did not have much to do with him, being the good little dub that I was, but as time went on something deep inside of me decided that it was wrong and cruel to avoid my father.
He wrote me a very loving letter shortly after he disassociated himself and assured me of his love for me. He told me that if I ever wanted to know why he did what he did, he would be happy to explain it to me.
About 6 years before he died, he got very sick and almost died. Almost losing him made me rethink my relationship with him. Toward the end of his life I spent a lot of time with him, which I am so glad. I did not start having doubts about the organization until a couple of years after he died, so he never knew about my change of heart.
What I am trying to say is this, let your daughters know that you love them and will always be there for them. Tell them that you know that to be loyal to the organization (and stress that it is loyalty to the organization, not Jehovah) they will have to shun you. Even encourage them to ask the elders to show them from the bible the scriptural basis for shunning. You never know what may become of it.
"By doubting we come at truth" -Cicero
