To be "Apostate" you must........?

by oompa 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • oompa
    oompa

    do what exactly? I'm geting confused, and part of that is that the Elders Handbook seems to kind of leave this up to each congo in some ways, which is pathetic. We have all the other exact rules, lets have one here so faders do not accidentally cross the line. Just recently was a great thread where the father was turned in by his wife for just getting c of c, and I don't believe he would have been df'd for that, or even reading that, but he chose to take a firm stand and he deserves respect for that.

    Never have I seen ANYTHING about looking at, or possesing apostate lit. being a df offense. How could it be? You are not trying to persuade or influence anyone and I thought thats what made someone an apostate. Also, if you just say, "I can't believe this," isn't that just simple doubt, which WT is always talking about how to overcome....but NOT by being df'd for apostacy.

    So how mouthy do you have to get? I can not BELIEVE I have not at least been accused of being apostate, but the one elder that ever mentioned even the outside chance I was leaning that way was reminded by me that I have no answers, no teachings, have never tried to get anyone to follow me, and......all my source materials for grievances with probamatic teachings were ALL WT! He even had to agree that would make it hard for them to "come after me." AND my dear wife turned me in with hard evidence I had signed up here! Still nothing, and tonight my wife and son are at the meeting with my dear CO friend visiting. This is my first total skip of a CO.

    Anyway, I think my elders just don't have any fight in them, and feel stupid for not knowing the same things that I did not know about our Fraudulant NWT until I learned and educated them. So if possible, I especially would like to hear from some active elders here like Oracle and others who have recently been df'd for the thought crime of apostacy........thanks......oompa

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    When I first started discovering the truth about the WTBTS and began to ask the other brothers questions they had no answers for, one of them asked me a question instead of even attempting to answer when I asked him about 607 B.C.

    He asked, "Do you believe that God is using the organization to feed His people?"

    When I said, "It may not be."

    He said, "That is apostasy."

    It doesn't take much to be linked with apostasy when you are dealing with some of these characters.

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    Oompa,

    Can I just tell you, that I love you?

    In a manly, brotherly, completely non sexual way, of course.

    What you are doing right now is so fantastic I can hardly contain myself !!

    Keep educating others through your questions. Through your doubts. Never "apostocize" by communicating any conclusions that you have drawn. You don't need to.

    You are doing tremendous good!

    Keep it up dude!!

    The Oracle

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    To be "Apostate" you must........?

    Eat cookies with a human face in them.

    Own a black cat.

    Drive a 2-door car.

    Have a college degree.

  • oompa
    oompa
    Honesty: When I said, "It may not be."

    See Oracle, all Honesty did was express a doubt to a freakin elder! It is there job to help such poor confused ones as Honesty overcome that doubt.

    You say: Keep educating others through your questions. Through your doubts. Never "apostocize" by communicating any conclusions that you have drawn. You don't need to.

    And that is all I meant to do knowing there is a line that can be crossed. By sincerely searching for my own answers, I know for a fact at least one elder is conflicted on some things I first asked, then showed him about. How far can you go? Almost out.....oompa

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle
    And that is all I meant to do knowing there is a line that can be crossed. By sincerely searching for my own answers, I know for a fact at least one elder is conflicted on some things I first asked, then showed him about. How far can you go? Almost out.....oompa

    Oompa,

    If you don't want to be accused of apostacy, stay in question mode. That is the line.

    Don't communicate any conclusions that you may have drawn.

    If they ask a specific question like, do you believe that the FDS is being directed by God or that it has been appointed to spirtually feed God's sheep - simply tell them: that is what I want to believe, but....what about this....yuda yuda

    If they press - do not give in. Just keep repeating - well that is what I have been taught, and that is what I want to believe. Help me gain my faith back brother. Here is what is causing me some doubts right now. Please help me. And then spill it.

    The Oracle

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Oompa..You say you are 4th generation JW..You don`t know what makes someone an "Apostate"..Why???...OUTLAW

  • Cicatrix
    Cicatrix

    Send in a letter of disassociation and absolutely refuse to give the tribunal that shows up on your doorstep the reason why.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    An apostate is someone that has turned against the organization. Committing sins does not make one an apostate. But, in their eyes, once you begin to see through their lies, you are on your way. If you do anything to plant seeds of doubt in the eyes of others, even if it comes from direct observation, they will classify you as an apostate. And once you start speaking out against the organization, in their eyes you definitely are apostate.

    Yes, they can disfellowship you if they catch you reading apostate literature. Somehow they call that "associating with a disfellowshipped person", even if the person who wrote the literature isn't yet disfellowshipped. They keep changing the boundaries on this, having tightened up a lot since Raymond Franz. They do this because the whole organization has such a pxxx poor foundation that anything that doesn't support it is going to destroy your faith in it. Evidently, the light cannot stand the darkness.

  • oompa
    oompa
    Oompa..You say you are 4th generation JW..You don`t know what makes someone an "Apostate"..Why???...OUTLAW
    Honesty: When I said, "It may not be."

    See Outlaw, all Honesty did was express a doubt to a freakin elder! It is there job to help such poor confused ones as Honesty overcome that doubt. (I had already posted this Outlaw)

    Some congo are apparently way more strict on what they feel is apostate. Good 4th Gen dubs obviously have spent more times being dubs than apostates! Read Oracles post and you could conclude that all you have to do never state what conclusion you have drawn on a matter that goes against WT. However, there is a difference in saying you doubt something, saying you dont believe something, and telling others about it in an effort to subvert their faith. What would it take, just saying you dont agree on one little point? Then your an apostate? Did you read what Honesty posted? What are your thoughts on this very subjective (per congo) on what constitutes apostacy to the point someone would be df'd? Were you for apostacy?....do tell.....oompa

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