My Journey

by Frenchy 45 Replies latest jw friends

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  Carmel

  Sorry, I can be a little circumspect sometimes in my comments. Having been out of the "truth" for forty years and familiarized myself with many of the worlds religions, I am struck by how "un-unique" they are. Most all seem to think they have something no one else has and the witnesses are no exception. As to recieving answers from each one's god, no difference again. I certainly have had my share of pneumenal experiances and what seemed to be direct results of earnest beseaching. Does this authenticate my choice of a religion? Not necessarily, but it does say something about the human psyche and how powerful the concept of "faith" is.

  warm regard Carmel

  btw Waiting, I enjoy your comments here and on H20
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  Carmel

  Sorry Witing,

  I can be a little circumspect in my comments sometimes. It seems to me from my experiance that not only are we as individuals very much alike as Frenchy stated, but as religions, we are much more alike than different. We may think we are "special" be it doctrins or organization, but in reality, we are very much alike. The answer to sincere prayer is answered in followers of all the other religions of the world. People of all religious traditions relate the same pneumenal experiances and are convinced that they are getting guidance and confirmation of the validity of their belief system. Little do they know that they share that experiance with billions of others who worship differently, even call god by a different name(s).

  To be frank I think two things are going on. One, the prayers are being answered and two much of what is thought of as an answer is the power of the human psyche.

  BTW, I have been enjoying your comments at H20.

  warm regards,

  carmel
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  waiting

  Hi Carmel,

  I truly hope your mispelling my name as "witing" was a Freudian slip to be construed as I'm full of wit (amongst other things). Oh, well, your typing skills are just not very good, ok.

  Thanks for responding. I agree with your point that sometimes when we outpour our minds and hearts in prayer that perhaps it's our own mental capabilites which straighten things out. I suppose this is not much apart from speaking to your own subconscious about a matter - asking it to clarify a problem and help show a solution or way out. I've done this repeatedly - and it does work in a remarkable number of situations.

  As for god answering our problems? Well, he did create our minds (conscious and subconscious, etc) so even if he doesn't answer us directly, (which I have never been the recipient of)he did give us our minds and abilities to use our minds.

  So I guess Jehovah might not give us all the answers, but he does give us the capabilities to solve a lot of our problems by using ourselves.

  Neat thought, Carmel, thanks for bringing it up!
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  Frenchy

  I'm in agreement with this also. But that brings up something else that has always bothered me. We've all read in the publications of how one should pray for something and then act in harmony witht that prayer. I've also read in the publications that God is not performing any miracles today. Thatposes a problem for me. Now necessarily wanting to get into semantics here but an answer to a prayer would haveto be a miracle, would it not? Regardless of what you are asking, you are asking for God's intervention in some way. When God intervenes with the natural order of things, it's a miracle, something which would not or could not occur without God's intervention. Now are there miracles today? If not, then why pray?

  Now if I pray to God to allow me to lose thirty pounds and I go on a diet and lose the weight, is it an answer to my prayer? If I pray to God for more knowledge and I take up a college course in the evenings and see it through, is that an answer to a prayer?

  Regardless of whatI pray for, God would have to intervene for that prayer to be answered. If he intervenes, it's a miracle. If he does not intervene and He, in fact, changes nothing, then he did not answer the prayer.
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  Carmel

  Frenchy,

  I think divine assistance comes in many different ways. For the most part it is recognized after the fact by those that believe their prayers have been answered whether it is pneumanistic or phenomenal. The unbeliever will chock it up to coincidence or happy accident or some other humanistic explanation. I'm impressed when highly educated people who know what statistical probabilities are all about and still acknowledge that they are the recipiants of God's favor in small and big ways.

  Miricals are of various magnitudes. Your hypothesis is mostly correct, with the exception that if nothing happens, it is nothing as per our perception. It may be otherwise but we haven't recognized it....yet!

  my humble opinion

  carmel
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  Pathofthorns

  I appreciated your comments Frenchy. I too share similar feelings regarding "the truth" and the people in it. I know the people in the truth are not bad. They believe its the truth, but do not know why. They are loyal, but it is misdirected. Most are simply ignorant of all the facts. I do know many have doubts and concerns, but it is much like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes, everyone thinks they are the only one and they are afraid to speak up.

  The difficulty with the having to accept "all or nothing" regarding doctrine and teachings makes it difficult for people who have principles, and have a conscience, and who love God, people and truth. I too face the same dilemmas. Most of all I wish "the truth" was true.

  Most people want someone to tell them exactly what to do "to get saved". They need someone to tell them everything is going to be alright. What they fail to realize is that the Bible for some reason is not written that way. Quite likely we will search our whole life, and never come to definite conclusions on all things. This is very unsettling for most of us, and certainly for us who have been used to just accepting all answers from "the channel".

  Prayer is often difficult when one knows the facts. I have heard this often. It makes people think they have made a mistake in their reasoning. To me, it appears that when one sees that the "emperor" has no "clothes", the "rug" has been pulled out from under us. Our foundation has been shaken. We question who really is God? The "organizational cliches" we used to rhyme off are realized. It seems we need to somehow learn to pray all over again.

  I really can't offer you any answers Frenchy, because if I could I could help myself too. I'm 26 years old trying to reconcile all these things. Even though its difficult, I wouldn't trade my progress down the path to freedom for the shackles of ignorance.

  Pathofthorns
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  Seven

  Pathofthorns-Welcome aboard!

  7
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  Maxee

  Hi everyone I am new here.
  Frenchy I feel Jehovah does answer our prays and I agree with seven of nine. When I first started asking myself questions about the organisation having an exclusive channel to God I felt guilty about my doubts. I am became inactive for a short while and stopped praying. One reason I stopped praying was because I became confused about where Jesus stood in the scheme of things. In the meetings the prays always seemed to just use Jesus as some sort of operator. all the emphasis was put on Jehovah. Due to the interpretation and teaching of the Faithful and Discreet Slave scripture I felt we were being denied the gift of the ransom that Jesus gave to us. I wanted to pray to Jesus too.

  I begun to pray with an open heart and asked Jehovah to guide me as far as prayers that he would except and where truth really lies. I have come to the conclusion that a personal relationship one on one is the means of worship that is acceptable. Jehovah helped me find others on the net and now I am not frightened for not believing everything the organisation writes or implements.

  I hope other too realise this. We have the privilege and blessing of a personal relationship. We don't need others to prop us up.
  Frenchy you too are blessed because you are questioning and searching for answers this must be pleasing to Jehovah.

  Edited by - Maxee on 5 June 2000 21:5:26
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  Scorpion

  Pathofthorns and Maxee, WELCOME!
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  mgm

  Hello to all the new members. It's getting difficult to read all the new postings every day....:))

  I also have difficults to pray since I know some truths about the truth. I just can't say some expressions like I used to say befor. I mostly thanks god for everything and ask for protection and guidance.
  I avoid also the expression "the truth", since I know how the "truth" change every few years.
  The truth would be 100% facts, but this is not at all the case for the JW.