NON JW Watchtower Shareholders!

by Gill 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    This was what I found using the on-site search function:

    KV: The Watchtower Empire has established numerous legal entities around the world. While likely similar, I suspect that "corporations" and "associations" may have some legal differences from country to country. To the best of my knowledge, all U.S. WTS/JW entities are currently "non-profit corporations". As such, they do not issue shares of stock, thus do not have shareholders. Rather, the corporate charters provide for "members", who each have one vote. The WTS's Charters provide for a specified quantity of members who are chosen/removed by the particular Board of Directors. The Charters also specify the responsibilities, duties, and liabilities (if any) of such members. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/16627/202736/post.ashx#202736
    The voting members of the Watch Tower corporation are long time JWs, and the numebr has been normally around 500. But some do not attend the shareholder meeting, and vote by proxy, so the number 337 you mention is only of those that might attend or remember to vote.

    The only way one of these would not be a JW is if that person left the religion. But, I have no doubt that they have a means to remove or buy-out the share value, which is likely kept at a low nominal value. The share holders simply own stock in a 'Holding Corporation' that operates the subsidiary corporations.

    The only other way a Watch Tower asset may be held by non-JWs is where they own stock as a minority shareholder, and the stock is actually controlled by proxy. For example, the Society might turn over cash assets to be invested through an agent, such as Citibank, who then invests the funs on their behalf, and the Agent has proxy power, or power of attorney to buy, sell, trade, move assets, or hold net proceeds until reinvested. - Amazing http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/8395/99064/post.ashx#99064

    There were indeed non-JWs in the past. Some real characters.

    The idea has been advanced that the corporation is actually some outside group with insidious goals. Nope. The members are insidious enough in their rubber stamp. The Society follows "the Society."

    Replacement members have been C A R E F U L L Y selected. The ones I know personally are about as sweet and placid as one can imagine, followers following followers following followers--quite happy to get their ticket to go to the annual meeting and to agree upon everything the Lord wants ...

    :: Yes, the GB are no part of the corporation therefore gave up any voting rights.

    That's what's incorrect. As individuals the GB members may be part of a corporation but they now are not officers or directors thereof.

    There are a number of Watch Tower or Watchtower entities that may exist only as a letterhead. I've negotiated convention contracts on such prior to execution of an agreement between the venue and the New York corporation. In recent years these procedures are rigidly controlled.

    A tip for those "following the money": The Treasurer's office was always part of the Pennsylvania corporation. Today I see Treasurer's correspondence under the NY corporation. Makes you go hmmmmmm.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/8395/99369/post.ashx#99369
    jurs,

    To Seeker, How did these people become members able to vote ?

    To be honest, I'm not sure how a person becomes a voting member nowadays.

    and what did they vote on ?

    Please note, we are not talking about GB voting matters here. The members of the corporation gather once a year, in person or by proxy, at the annual meeting to vote on corporation matters. Basically, when the officers of the corporation have their terms expiring, the members have to vote on either keeping that officer in place or voting someone else in. In practice, the expiring officers are always voted back in. It's a rubber-stamp affair. And that's all this is, a legal stockhold's meeting, and nothing else. Takes about 30 minutes, once a year.

    Stock shares ??? I never knew their was stock.

    Well, any corporation has stock, even companies that don't go public, like the WTS. The shares aren't worth anything if it doesn't go public, but exists merely as a form of control of the corporation in the aggregate.

    How did you guys find this out ?

    I was in Bethel, and I have been to the annual meetings where they announce the voting results and give the membership numbers (how many of them are anointed, etc.)

    Do most JW's know this ? Perhaps the information was in a watchtower that I never read or mentioned in a meeting I missed.

    It's in the Watchtower every year, in a box that calls for attendance at the annual meeting in early October, or else sending in your proxy votes.

    Do these shareholders get to keep the money that they may make ?
    Has anyone been able to look up the stock and see what its worth??

    What money? The stock has no real monetary value, for it's not a public company.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/8395/99521/post.ashx#99521

    When I formed my nonprofit org (also in NY), I had to stipulate in my by-laws who would get any leftover assets if I dissolved my org. It is not that the public is entitled to the assets, but that another nonprofit is designated to get them. For the wts, that could mean a kh, or the Red Cross (ha ha), or whomever they chose.

    I have done extensive research on the "shareholders" rumor and have found no evidence that there are shareholders today

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121766/2153170/post.ashx#2153170

    Any non-profit organization can send out bills and charge for services and not pay income taxes ... the issue is not whether they bill a customer or not ... but whether they make a "profit" ... additionally, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is a not-for-profit """religious""" organization, and as such, are exempt from income tax liability - even IF they have """surplus cash""" held over at the end of their fiscal year ... as long as that cash is used and recapitalized into their operation, and no dividends (profits) are paid to shareholders ... then they are truly a non-profit organization ... it's that simple.

    PS: The Watchtower Society, as any religion CAN ask for money from the public in the form of donations, and they CAN bill public (non-JW) organizations the same for services ... again, the issue is that they are not making a profit, and that they are a religion, exempt from tax liability ...

    Edited by - Amazing on 8 December 2002 9:52:58

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/41972/582811/post.ashx#582811
  • Gill
    Gill

    Merry - Thanks!

    It appears then that should the WT 'dissolve' the assets / money / land? real estate / stocks and shares in other companies / investments goes to whomever they have designated to have the assets. So, who might that possibly be?

  • coffee_black
    coffee_black
    There were indeed non-JWs in the past. Some real characters

    Looks like this is the cause of the confusion...and why we thought some of the shareholders were non jws.

    Your question is a good one... follow the money... I wish I knew.

    Coffee

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    Well Gill, Mary Magdalene has provided alot of info here, I dont know what else to add. It would be interesting to find out who the WT Society has named as their beneficiary in the event they dissolved.

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    I bring this back up just in case someone knows or has an idea how to find out

    ...who the WT Society has named as their beneficiary in the event they dissolved.

    as it certainly might be interesting.

    I am also curious about this:

    A tip for those "following the money": The Treasurer's office was always part of the Pennsylvania corporation. Today I see Treasurer's correspondence under the NY corporation. Makes you go hmmmmmm.

    ~Merry

  • Merry Magdalene
    Merry Magdalene

    I forgot to quote this before:

    my understanding is that the limited number of shareholders are only voting shares, not ownership interest. this is the case because the corporations are all charities (non-profit organizations). with a non-profit corporation, no share holder, officer, etc. is allowed to profit from an ownership interest. in a sense charities are "owned" by the public. they enjoy their tax-free status because they give back to the public or serve the public's interest. if someone that is private individuals were allowed to benefit, then that would be a taxable situation. (of course this doesn't mean that charities don't take in more revenue than expenses (i.e. profit), can't pay a reasonable percentage of operating costs as salaries or on personnel, etc., or are exempt from all forms of taxation.)

    charities are set up for the benefit of the general public or with specific purposes to serve specific segments of the public. if a charity has to be wound up, after payment of any debts, any residual assets are either distributed in accord with the Articles of Incorporation or in the absent of a specific directive, in a manner that would similarly serve the public interest as the purpose of the charity. Generally the board of directors has this responsibility to wind up the non-profit corporation (charity) and makes such decisions as to the distribution or use of assets. If however, there is no acting board of directors or responsible party, the State Secretary where the charity is incorporated would make such a distribution or allotment. The goal would be to use such assets to serve the public interest in comparable fashion, so for example lets say there were a certain sum left of cash, no board, and the State Sec is making the decison, the State Sec could distribute the funds to other religious or bible charities/non-profits.

    --from Ouroborous on another thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/121766/2150350/post.ashx#2150350

    This is as close as I have been able to come to the WTS's Articles of Incorporation, a Charter Amendment registered in 1945, still interesting in its own right. It does discuss membership. Haven't read it all yet.

    http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/charterscans/wt_chartscans.html

    ~Merry

    edited to add link to other post

  • Gill
    Gill

    'Does a member worship christ in accordance with the Society's purpose?'

    That is quite a revealling statement for them them to make in WTS's Articles of Incorporation, a Charter Amendment registered in 1945.

    Thanks, Merry!

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