by deaconbluez 129 Replies latest watchtower bible
If the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is Jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks?
10
"For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.’
I brought this up a while back the J-Dubs aren't the only ones invested in 606/607bce problem. All of christianity is thru the book of daniel's pointing to 29ce as the apearance of the messiah (Jesus), or what ever I forgot what else it pointed to besides 1914; but it was important to christians as a whole.
Dear Deconbluez,
Good question. Here is a post I did on this some time ago. I hope it helps answer your question.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/111283/1.ashx
Hi everyone,
I just made this chart for my brother-in-law using the Bible as well as the book entitled Assyrian & Babylonian Chronicles by A.K. Grayson printed in 1975. Grayson is a world renound expert used to decipher the Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles for the British Museum. I checked out this book from the local library. Although they had to send away to a College University for it. A interesting note: the Society uses this very book in the Insight Vol.2 under Nebuchadnezzar to support their dates. When I got this book, it was for the purpose of checking their dates and quotes of this author. As you will see by this chart, they have misquoted him to serve their own deceitful purpose! I included scriptures that support the chronicles. Like I said, I made this for my brother-in-law, but thought someone out there might be able to use it.
Have a great night!
Lady Liberty
The Seventy Years: 609 to 539 BCE
609- Nabopolassars 17 th reignal year. Babylon was dominating all surrounding nations. See Jer. 25:11, 25:17- 26. 27:6-8, 12-13(All the nations will have to SERVE the king of Babylon seventy years.) The 70 years begin. ( Babylonian Chronicle 3- BM 21901)
607- Nabopolassars 19 th reignal year. Nebuchadnessar was not even in power yet! He was only a crowned prince at this time. (Babylonian Chronicle 4 –BM 22047)
605- Nabopolassars 21 st reignal year. Battle of Carchemish , between Egypt and Babylon. Nabopolassar dies and Nebuchadnezar accends the thrown. This is year 0 for Nebuchadnezzars reign. Daniel finds himself exiled to Babylon, as well as the Royal offspring of Jerusalem, the utensils of the house of Jehovah were carried to Babylon. See Daniel 1- 2:1. Jer. 29:1,20 (Babylonian Chronicle 5- BM 21946)
603- Nebuchadnezzars second reignal year. See. Dan. 2:1
586/587- Jerusalem burned. Nebuchadnessars ninteenth reignal year. See Jer. 52:12-16 (There were still lowly ones left remaining in the city.)
562-End of Nebuchadnezzars reign.
557-Neriglissars third reignal year. ( Chronicle 6 –BM 25124)
556- Nabonidus becomes King. (Nabonidus Chronicle 7- BM35382)
539- 70 are fullfilled. Nabonidus is King of Babylon at this time. Cyrus overtakes Babylon in one night. Handwriting on the wall. Jews released from servitude. See- Dan. 5:25-26 Jer. 25: 12 ( Nabonidus Chronicle: Chronicle 7-BM 36304)
Deaconbluez -
I have some links saved from a series of detailed discussions in 2005 on the topic of Jeremiah 29:10. I'll look them up and post them in a separate message.
Leolaia and Narkissos posted some excellent messages in those threads dealing with the grammar of that verse. Also, I posted contact information for Dr. Ernst Jenni, who is widely regarded as the foremost authority on the Hebrew preposition. Both Leolaia and Scholar wrote to Dr. Jenni, and Leolaia posted his response.
One of the threads is very long (39 pages) but the spin-off thread is only 4 pages.
The main points were:
1. The Hebrew preposition lamed in Jeremiah 29:10 should not be read as "70 years AT Babylon." It refers to 70 years OF Babylon domination.
2. The context of Jeremiah 29 is that the prophet Jeremiah in Jerusalem wrote a letter and sent it by messenger to a group of exiles who were already in Babylon, including the king, the king's mother, the nobles, many of the artisans and craftsmen, etc. Vessels from the holy temple had also been looted and taken to Babylon.
The people were distraught, especially because the false prophets were telling them that the captivity would be short, and that the yoke of Babylon would be broken within two years.
Jeremiah wrote to the people to tell them --- the exiles who were already in captivity --- that they should settle down and marry and plant vineyards because the Lord would remember them and come for them.
The letter is a promise to the exiles who were already there in Babylon, some ten years before the destruction of Jerusalem. According to Jeremiah 29, the seventy years had already started, even though Jerusalem had not yet been destroyed.
The period of Babylon's domination was 609-539 BCE.
Regards,
Marjorie
Hmmm, I keep getting an error message when I try to post links to the old discussions.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/90425/1517380/post.ashx
Let's see if this works.
Marjorie
You asked: If the exile wasn't to be 70 years, how is Jeremiah 29:10 explained by pro-587 folks? 10 "For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.’ We explain them as 70 years of Babylonian supremacy in the region. The words "70 years at Babylon" which you have quoted from the NWT or the KJV should be translated "70 years for Babylon" - as they are translated in most modern Bible translations. In other words, after the 70 years which God allowed Babylon to dominate and control its neighboring nations had passed God would see to it that the Jews would be allowed to return home. Historians tell us that those 70 years of Babylonian supremacy in the ancient Near East began when Babylon replaced Assyria as the dominant power in the region in the year 609. They ended when Cyrus overthrew Babylon in 539.
You asked: Also, if it truly was a 70-year period of servitude, and not exile, when was this 70 years served by other nations? All nations in the ancient Near East fell under the control of Babylon at some time during its 70 years of supremacy. However not all nations in the region fell under Babylonian control at the exact same time. And not all nations in the region remained under Babylon's control until the end of its 70 years of dominance.
Deaconbluez --
Sorry, but I am having trouble posting the links directly from my saved Word files. However, if you scroll through the two threads to which I just posted links, you'll find some very detailed, helpful messages from Leolaia and Narkissos.
Marjorie
OTHER NWT RENDERINGS OF JER 29:10
Jeremiah 29:10 in the Swedish NWT reads “FOR Babylon”. See http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Jer_29-10_Swedish_2003_NWT.pdf
Jeremiah 29:10 in the Danish NWT reads “FOR Babylon”. See http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Jer_29-10_Danish_1993_NWT.pdf
IMMEDIATE CONTEXT
Let’s have a look at the immediate context of Jer 29:10. Starting from verse 1, it shows that this letter was written to the “exiles” living in Babylon following the dethronement and deportation of Jehoiachin (597 BCE).
In his letter, Jeremiah told the exiles not to listen to the false prophets and dreamers who were promising a quick release. Rather, he told them, settle down and marry, have children and plan for grandchildren. Pray for peace and prosperity for Babylon. After the 70 years were completed, the people would be permitted to return. They were already exiled, they were already serving Babylon.
Eleven years later, Jeremiah told Zedekiah that the city of Jerusalem did not need to be destroyed for the 70 years of servitude to be fulfilled.
The following is the text of Jeremiah 29:1 - 10, as written in the NIV:
This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. (This was after King Jehoiachin and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the craftsmen and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.) …
This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon:
“Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”
Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: “Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have. They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them,” declares the LORD.
This is what the LORD says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. (Jeremiah 29:1, 2, 4-10)
THE FULL CONTEXT
Proper understanding of the “70 years” comes only by commencing from the start of the events, not from their conclusion. When the period is started with Judah’s king Manassah, everything falls into place. (The bold letters in the following list are only provided to make the list easier to read)
For a comprehensive analysis, see:
http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/Decay_and_Fall_of_Judah.pdf
Doug
Lets take this into some new light LOL
What if he means after you toil on earth (babylon) for 70 years , then when you die he keeps his word and takes your soul back to the source.
Maybe it's not such a narrow meaning as it is portrayed as , perhaps it alludes to a more broad meaning with a little scope than the literal would appear after a translation and much copying.
