JWs are having a tough time

by drew sagan 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  dawg

  Drew, you can compare any two things for similaries, but like you said that doesn't make them the same. THe similaries between an ape and my toenail... both have atoms and so on.

  To me, the problem with the JWs is even worse than that... they will even lie to protect men they don't know. My father, last time he was in my home 1.5 years ago, sat on my couch and said that not going along with the slave would'nt get you disfellowshiped. I said that it had gotten Ray Franz dFd and asked him to please take my copy of COC. He got pissed and left.

  THen after I started writing my letters, he started calling my friends and asking them if I was on drugs and whatnot... trying to find fault with me so he can protect a bunch of fools in Brooklyn... Good freaking lord, will they stop at nothing?
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  Burger Time

  Drew I have always loved the "It's useless for us to debate this subject" argumentation. Then you tell them to turn to Acts 18:28 and have them read verbatim what it says. They get to the word "debate" and are silenced. You then point out other scriptures in Acts where Paul debated for days! It's something they can't seem to grasp.
• 

  WTWizard

  That reasoning book came out in 1985. Back then, one person could put something in to rebut one point, and it would stick to that person. Someone else could rebut another point, and that would also be isolated. It was extremely difficult for apostates to get together and rebut the whole thing and spread the rebuttals to masses of people. So that piece of fraud worked extremely well.

  Then came the Internet. Much of it is posted on apostate Web sites. Many more points are rebutted right here on this forum. One member will find one point to rebut, and post it. Others who did not think of that will see it and may respond. Additional points for rebuttal get posted, and pretty soon you have a fully integrated system to shoot holes in every single one of those points in the Defrauding book.

  That is why the Watchtower Society is in a pickle. Once every single one of the points in the Defrauding book is rebutted and the rebuttals are posted on a public forum, it will no longer work. Someone asks about Christmas and birthdays, and goes to Luke 2:10-14 and sees Christmas being celebrated by perfect angels in heaven. Then it gets posted, and the whole world sees it. This happens through the whole book, and before long, it goes out of date. They do not bother to update it (I think that would be a waste of time because rebuttals to those arguments would soon end up on the Web courtesy some apostate that takes the time to post it).
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  willyloman

  Excellent topic. Typically, it goes like this at the door:

  Householder: "What happened to the 1914 teaching?"

  Dub: "We aren't here to argue."
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  drew sagan

  To me, the problem with the JWs is even worse than that... they will even lie to protect men they don't know. My father, last time he was in my home 1.5 years ago, sat on my couch and said that not going along with the slave would'nt get you disfellowshiped. I said that it had gotten Ray Franz dFd and asked him to please take my copy of COC. He got pissed and left.
  
  THen after I started writing my letters, he started calling my friends and asking them if I was on drugs and whatnot... trying to find fault with me so he can protect a bunch of fools in Brooklyn... Good freaking lord, will they stop at nothing?

  Your Dad followed a typical pattern of behavior that I have seen before. In the instance where you discussed Ray Franz and the faithful slave, in his mind he was being completely truthful. A person technically will never get DF'd for not 'going along with the slave'. Instead the charges are something else such as slander, apostasy, and loose conduct. A JW will rarely ever think of the ethical implications of using technicalities in order to answer questions without 100% transparency. But they usually view the cause is more important than being clear in their statements.
  
  In reference in how he tried to find 'dirt' on you that too is all to typical. Because JWs are taught that those who leave are engaged in gross sins, they will simply assume that all who leave really have hidden dirty secrets. To them it is so logical to remain in the religion that there must be some other reason why that person left.
  
  The goal of the JW isn't to 'protect' the men up at Brooklyn. Those men are completely disposable as far as they are concerned. Any one of them can go bad at any time and will be replaced with somebody else that is worthy. In their minds what is important is maintaining the concept in their own minds.
  
  I think it has a lot more to do with loyalty to the concept they WTS sold to them rather than loyalty to the WTS itself.
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  the dreamer dreaming

  I think the problem is that JWs and MORMONs are both taught that the RIGHT candidate will have the RIGHT heart condition and will just LISTEN and NOT debate...so when debate begins, they KNOW they have found a dead end and its time to move on.
• 

  saywhat29

  I think the problem is that JWs and MORMONs are both taught that the RIGHT candidate will have the RIGHT heart condition and will just LISTEN and NOT debate...so when debate begins, they KNOW they have found a dead end and its time to move on.

  Yeah I've heard and was taught this when out in field service that whenever someone wanted to argue, just move on because they were "being used by satan" and were evil, and that you could be geting the message to somebody who would listen. That's why I do not even know how to approach my witnoid relatives because I know that there minds aren't even 'open' to debate because they have their whole mentality set into it. But then again who didn't?

  It's difficult, but they aren't willing to listen mainly to those reasons listed above; they made up their minds about your argument before they have any real backing to discredit or counter it. You are just 'evil/wicked' and that is it.