Rosalee is partly right. If you are not living in the same household as the rest of your family, association should be restricted to necessary family business only. The Kingdom Ministry gave examples of individuals who effectively closed off all association with family members and promoted that stance.
However, this position is not followed by many Witnesses in practice. Many elders continue to associate with sons and daughters who live away from home. But they do so carefully, not drawing attention to it. If it becomes an issue with the congregation, privileges would probably be removed.
If I am disfellowshipped, will my family get disfellowshipped they...
by LayingLow 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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James Free
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LayingLow
None of my immediate family (brothers, sisters, mother, father) are witnesses, but other members are (Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents). I don't believe any of them would cut off association with me based on their conscience or even from counsel from articles. What they might do is limit it extremely if they could be disfellowshipped for it, as they don't personally like my stance but neither care to disassociate themselves from me.
I've been extremely cautious for the sake of family ties. If it were up to me I'd have exposed the errors publicly and let the pieces fall where they may. I sort of feel like I'm selling out for family(at the expense of informing others), but at the same time, everyone has the same information available to them that I had. It was through the encouragement of the CO at a convention that got me back into intense Bible reading. And it was that same intense Bible reading that got me out of the organization. Also, there were many experiences in service that allowed me to see alternate interpretations of many scriptures(ones that probably hold many back from questioning further), so that when I finally could put it all the pieces together, I could see something different than the WTS had painted for me.
I don't intend to flaunt continued association, nor even necessarily to go with them to public places (as we have not done much in that way ever). Instead I usually visit them in their homes. I'm wondering if the elders would put an end to my familial door-to-door. -
James Free
If you are considered apostate in any way by the elders or your family, wave them goodbye. I would not recommend voicing your doubts to the elders or your family if you want to keep them. You can screw around, but apostasy is the devil himself at work in you...LOL
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LayingLow
Then this goose is cooked... Actually I've already sat through hours and hours of elders meetings in deep discussion over the specifics of the doctrine. No word for a long time, maybe they're just getting the JC engine revved up, I'm not sure. Either way, my family knows what my differences are and they are still willing to associate. Actually some agree, but have spent too long in the org, don't like the idea of thinking for themselves, and are willing to ride it out (they've actually verbalized this). I was just wondering if any one has some hands on experience with the likely upcoming situation. How did you manage to continue associating with family? Any note-worthy results or advice?
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LayingLow
"Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course."
I was just looking at this and considering its meaning. Do you think they mean to justify their wrong course in associating with you? Or, to justify the wrong course you took(which resulted in the disfellowshipping)?
I imagine the same rule applies for DA'd people too. Not sure though. -
VoidEater
First, let me say my heart goes out to you. I'm sure there's not only the issues of family relationships, but indeed the crisis of conscience and the pulling away from what has in at least some ways been a source of support. As someone else already encouraged, find some relationship outside the organization - as you may already know, not everyone in "the world" is toxic or ungodly or evil!
There are first the variances between official doctrine and daily practice, the differences between living in a household with family members as opposed to not living with them, the "sin" for which you are DFed if it gets that far (apostasy - which is telling others you do not agree with an interpretation - being the unforgiveable sin), and your actual status. Oh, and if your family members happen to start associating with you but then go to the elders and repent, as well as the attitudes of the individual elders in their congregation(s).
What I've seen in my family is those living in the same house (and usually closely related - parents/children, spouses) can continue life as usual. I've seen one case in a close friend's family where the husband was encouraged to not live in the same house as his DFed wife, cautioned against speaking on spiritual matters (if he stayed in the house) except (as head of household) he could listen to repentence (he was cautioned he could be DFed if an inappropriate[!] relationship was found between himself and his wife), and the most variable has been the case of DAed/DFed children - in some cases, contact is fine (no spiritual talking!) and in other cases it's been strongly encouraged that no contact be made. As others have said, it's kind of gray in practice.
And, of course, this has changed over the decades. At times you could not talk to DFed Uncle Ray at the family reunion, and at other times you could be cordial but not too friendly in family settings and in family business.
The least amount of trouble will be had if you can avoid being DFed. You can fade ("fall away") with statements about having some things in your life you need to work out, but from this point forward make no statements about your beliefs or contradict anything the WBTS says - say you are taking it before Jehovah in prayer and waiting on Jehovah to see you through your issues.
Avoid initiating religious discussions with any JWs, including family. If you have some family members that might be happy to see you one day, but then go to the elders to repent their bad acts of associating with you the next, don't respond to any religious discussions with them. Apostasy will be the biggest issue - you may have thoughts that contradict the WBTS teachings, and that's bad, but for Heaven's sake don't express them, especially in writing, to elders or other JWs. I've seen my dad get cornered into admitting he had expressed doubts, which was used against him.
I've seen the most leniency in cases where fmaily members associate with someone who has "fallen away", as long as the "fallen" don't express bitterness or disagreement with the organization (and that gets back to the elders).
To answer your question, the thing to avoid would be for you to defend your sinful course of action in leaving the organization. Don't encourage anyone to leave, don't tell them they're doing the wrong thing (besides exposing yourself and your fmaily to troublesome interference, as others have said your fmaily will make up their own mind about what to do) by staying in. In all cases, you have some things in your life that you are praying on and waiting on Jehovah to set you right.
The same basic rules apply to DA ones, yes.
If a particular elder has it in for you, your life can be made pretty miserable. If you've been a popular person, or your family are popular, then you have less exposure. Having family members that are "strong in the truth" is a two-edged sword - it can mean they are so strong that no amount of accociation can posisble harm them
As long as things are kept quiet (away from the general view of the rest of the congregation), all things being equal, the bigger worry is how your family will choose to treat you. My grandmother hasn't spoken to my dad in 30+ years, even though he's been accepted back into the organization after being in a special limbo where he was TOLD he had DAed himself, but averes he never did (of course to get back in he finally had to "admit" he was "wrong"). In my case, my parents have never had an issue associating with me - but then, I have never made an issue of "leaving". I doubt that the elders in their congregation know about my status, and my parents have never felt it was their responsiblity to tell them all the gory details about their gay son. Somehow, my parents valued me as a person above a philosophy of shunning.
Your mileage may vary - but this board cn be a great support, too...cheers
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oompa
Laying low: I've already realized that continued association with other in the org will not be possible. That is regrettable but necessary. However, I read in an online copy of 'Paying attention to the flock' that my family would not get disfellowshipped for associating with me if that happened, so long as they do not 'try to justify their wicked deed'. Anyone have any experience with this? I'd appreciate it.
The df of family would not occur if you are still living at home. They could be otherwise...it is up to your elders. As long as you have not gone too far in expressing your doubts, you are ok in many ways. If you are not Df'd, then you can still hang out with your friends/family and very carefully you may get them to think clearly. What were the doctrines you questioned?
Welcome to JWD and get to know us.....oompa
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LayingLow
I've noticed how God has worked in the lives of many people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. That always struck a cord with me. How could these people (not all churchgoers, but some)have such huge turn-arounds, against such great odds, tackling addictions and persecutions, if God's Spirit were not helping them. I've felt it in my life, and whenever anything beneficial happens like that to a Witness, we always attribute it to Jehovah's Spirit. But as soon as it happens to a non-witness, its never attributed to God's Spirit? Can He not work beyond denominational boundaries? My point with all this is that I have a support network with God, close family, and old friends. I'm not estranged from all other non-JW's necessarily viewing them as 'worldly' as I've always tried to see good in others. This has helped tremendously in getting over this. Emotionally I was on a roller coaster for the first month (The Am-I-Right?Are-They-Right? flip flopping). After much prayer and study the answer became clear, and from that point on it was unemotional. I feel I'm doing better spiritually than ever, but I don't want to do anything to unnecessarily damage relationships.
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sammielee24
It's all up to the Elders and basically, it's all up to your family.
I know people who are da'd and their families shun them. I know people df'd whose families shun them.
I personally don't know of any family members who don't shun people in their own families - I do know families who have 'tried' to maintain contact, especially parents with their kids, only to have those parents counselled as to what association means to them. They will question any association because after all, isn't shunning a loving action to bring those lost ones back to Jehovah? If you shun them then they will see the error of their ways and make things right again. Shunning them is harsh but necessary and won't we bo so happy when they come back to us? In every case that I know of where parents tried to keep in contact with their kids, they eventually lost out to the society.
In cases where the kids live at home, I have seen the parents back off on any 'normal' association and this in itself only increases the guilt and depression that often goes along with a person being da'd or df'd. It's always a point with witnesses to make sure that you know that you are in the wrong and you know what you have to do to right the wrong.
Although the family won't get disfellowshipped, counsel usually follows the coaching and train of thought that you are compromising yourself and your belief in Jehovah by any association. Those who are deeply entrenched simply won't compromise those beliefs no matter how close you think they are to you - and that in itself destroys what you think you had, what you did have and what you might have had. sammieswife.
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Rosalee
LL asks ... Do you think they mean to justify their wrong course in associating with you?
Yes ... not because of your stand but because they associate with you.
I know someone who was recently warned about this very thing and was told that it will lead to df'ing.