There is no need to go to any university of higher education to solve the WTS’s problem with “generation” of Matthew 24:34. It only needs a Primary School “Certificate in Plain Reading”.
In each of the nine times that the word “generation” appears in Matthew, Jesus is talking about the Jewish people of his time. Read: Matt 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; and 24:34.
At the start of his Olivet Discourse (Matthew chapters 24 and 25), Jesus warns his disciples to beware of deceivers who would point to wars, earthquakes and such as a sign of his coming (parousia in Matthew) and of the destruction of the temple. So he was telling them not to take any notice of wars and such. Never did he mention size or extent of wars, number of casualties, and so on. He simply said to watch out for deceivers coming as “the Christ (Anointed)” who would point to such events.
The people at the time were looking for a Messiah who would release them from the tyranny of Roman oppression and from the hypocrisy of their religious leaders. Jesus promised that the temple would be destroyed within their generation, and that is why the disciples called its destruction the “end of the age”.
The WTS’s problem stems from its reliance on a false chronology which it confirms with a false “sign”, using a false reading of Jesus’ message, which was intended for the people of his own time.
The WTS then kangaroo-hops around unrelated passages of Scripture to create an imaginary upper class of elect “Anointed” and probably will kangaroo-hop this to the “generation”.
The WTS’s problem with “generation” is a self-inflicted wound.
Doug
Generation problem is a self-inflicted wound
by Doug Mason 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
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neverendingjourney
It certainly was a self-inflicted wound, but it's a self-inflicted wound that was a central piece of their successful recruitment strategy for most of their existence. The problem is that it was a short-term strategy that was destined to fail. They weren't looking at things long-term. Unlike a lot of their doctrine, the generation teaching is falsifiable. They are now in the process of attempting to reinvent this doctrine with as few negative consequences as possible.
What I'm really interested in is what they will do next to provide their members and potential recruits with a renewed sense of urgency. If people think that Armageddon might be decades or centuries away, why live under the JWs' oppressive rule? From my perspective, the only way they will be able to keep their membership from declining is to (a) reinvent their end-times prophecy to provide a continued sense of urgency, essentially that Armageddon-is-right-around-the-corner feeling, or to (b) shed their oppressive rules and go mainstream. I think they will opt for the (a), but only time will tell.
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Robert222
I agree, yet what has kept this cult alive for so many yrs is there constant "modern day" fulfillment, or correlation with modern day events. They have based an entire corporation on how every sentence in the bible means something relevant to today's JW's. Its infuriating.
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JCanon
With all due respect, LUKE's reference to the destruction of Jerusalem never mentions Daniel or the "great tribulation."
The great tribulation is a time of distress for the Jews like no other. It's a one-time event that would not happen until the "end times." Per Zech 13:8 this great tribulation would exterminate two-thirds of the Jewish population.
Further that generation specifically begins with a "world war." As noted, this and that war would not begin this generation. But when there was a world war, i.e. "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom", that is when that "last generation" would begin. The "great tribulation" would end when the "appointed times of the nations" would end. Thus even in Luke when it prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem it notes that "Jerusalem would be trampled on until the appointed times of the nations" was completed. So the countdown to the last generation and the second was yet in the future, past the fall of Jerusalem.
The fact that the concept of the second coming would be far into the future is seen in the context of other scriptures. For instance, 1 Thess 4:15 shows that Christ would cause the first resurrection to take place when he arrives during the end times, but by then there would be two classes among Christians. Ones who had died and needed to be resurrected and some already alive. It was thus clear that many would die first before Christ returned, confirming that the second coming was well into the future of that present generation during Jesus' time.
Finally, there are three prophesies that specifically point to the YEAR of the second coming.
1) The 7 times prophecy establishes the second coming occurring 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem.
2) The "1335 days" prophecy establishes the second coming 45 years after the restoration of the Jews to their homeland in 1947.
3) The second coming occurrs within a year of mid-70th-week of the last 490 years (1506-1996).
All the above point to 1992-1993. So the only thing we need to look at is whether or not 1992-1993 falls within a "generation", that is, 80 years, of a world war. WWI happened in 1914 so that generation would end in 1994. 1992-1993 occurs before 1994, so the prophecy of Christ coming within a generation of a world war was fulfilled.
JCanon
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Mary
Dr. Demento speaks.
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deaconbluez
With all due respect, LUKE's reference to the destruction of Jerusalem never mentions Daniel or the "great tribulation."
The great tribulation is a time of distress for the Jews like no other. It's a one-time event that would not happen until the "end times." Per Zech 13:8 this great tribulation would exterminate two-thirds of the Jewish population.
Further that generation specifically begins with a "world war." As noted, this and that war would not begin this generation. But when there was a world war, i.e. "nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom", that is when that "last generation" would begin. The "great tribulation" would end when the "appointed times of the nations" would end. Thus even in Luke when it prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem it notes that "Jerusalem would be trampled on until the appointed times of the nations" was completed. So the countdown to the last generation and the second was yet in the future, past the fall of Jerusalem.
The fact that the concept of the second coming would be far into the future is seen in the context of other scriptures. For instance, 1 Thess 4:15 shows that Christ would cause the first resurrection to take place when he arrives during the end times, but by then there would be two classes among Christians. Ones who had died and needed to be resurrected and some already alive. It was thus clear that many would die first before Christ returned, confirming that the second coming was well into the future of that present generation during Jesus' time.
Finally, there are three prophesies that specifically point to the YEAR of the second coming.
1) The 7 times prophecy establishes the second coming occurring 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem.
2) The "1335 days" prophecy establishes the second coming 45 years after the restoration of the Jews to their homeland in 1947.
3) The second coming occurrs within a year of mid-70th-week of the last 490 years (1506-1996).
All the above point to 1992-1993. So the only thing we need to look at is whether or not 1992-1993 falls within a "generation", that is, 80 years, of a world war. WWI happened in 1914 so that generation would end in 1994. 1992-1993 occurs before 1994, so the prophecy of Christ coming within a generation of a world war was fulfilled.
JCanon, you can't be serious. There's nothing to even indicate that the "7 times" Daniel talked about was meant to have 2 fulfillments, nor is there anything to indicate that 7 times = 2,520 years. And we know that Jesus has not come back yet based on the physical evidence that would accompany him, according to Matthew 24 and Luke 21.
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neverendingjourney
I posted a topic a few hours ago analyzing why the entire 1914 doctrine is bogus.
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steve2
I agree that the reference to "generation" always refers to the Jewish people. The interpretation that it has a modern-day application is a peculiarly late 19th Century American flourish which has mazingly survived into the present century. When it comes to interpretation, common sense is seldom present - just look at the torturous interpretative thinking of ICanon above for proof of that.
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JCanon
DEACONBLUZ: JCanon, you can't be serious. There's nothing to even indicate that the "7 times" Daniel talked about was meant to have 2 fulfillments, nor is there anything to indicate that 7 times = 2,520 years. And we know that Jesus has not come back yet based on the physical evidence that would accompany him, according to Matthew 24 and Luke 21.
You say there is nothing to indicate there is a double fulfillment here? Well that's your view. Here's how I'm seeing it, for what it's worth.
Ezekiel 4:6 establishes the concept that the Jews were given "a day for a year"... Let me quote that:
"A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you."
Okay. What are we to do with this? When is this applied? Does this mean when so many "days" are mentioned we then substitude it for a year? Can that be it? Well, could be. Maybe not. But JUST FOR FUN, let's see if it ever makes any sense.
Aha! The "70 weeks" prophecy about when the messiah would arrive, during the 70th week, from the time the word goes forth to rebuild Jerusalem. Now how did that actually work out. Was these 70 weeks, which is 490 days when the messiah arrived? That is, did the messiah arrive 483 days after Jerusalem began to be rebuilt? Or was it more like 483 YEARS? Well, in this case, per the VAT4956 dating of year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in 511 BCE, the rebuilding work at Jerusalem at the very earliest when the Jews first returned would have been in 455 BCE. 483 days is about a year and 3 months. So is that when the messiah arrived? Jesus was baptized in 29 CE, which just happens to be exactly 483 years after 455 BCE.
So there is your "indication" that you claim doesn't exist.
This is so apparent to others that some Bible translations even call this "seventy weeks of YEARS" I believe. So the indication IS there, unless you just don't want to acknowledge it. But having noted that, whether it should be applied to the "7 times" of Daniel or not, we still can check out the numbers.
So let's presume the "day for a year" formula shouldn't be applied to the "7 times" prophecy, but we just want to see what kind of time frame we are dealing with or dates in case we do apply it. Okay, the chopped down tree could be the stump of Jesse that the messiah sprouts from, so the chopped down tree represents the kingdom, specifically ruling kingship on the earth. The rulers were taken away when Jerusalem fell. 7 times would pass over. 3.5 times are 1260 days for 7 times are double that, 2520 days. So we have a choice to presume the kingdom is restored after just 7 years after 529 BCE (the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem) or some 2520 years afterward, in which case the earthly king of the Jews is supposed to return in 1992.
Hmmmmm.....
You say there is nothing to indicate that the messiah has arrived yet? Well, Matthew clearly says that "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" then the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN WOULD APPEAR IN HEAVEN. The "great tribulation" was WWII and the HOLOCAUST. So, did the sign appear?
YES. It did. But only to the "eagles" as the Bible indicates. Those who would recognize the sign and begin to "beat themselves in lamentation." And why would they begin to cry when they saw the sign? Because the sign, which appears in the clouds is the image of a dead child, a dead black child. That's the sign.
The WTS knows this is the sign and put it in the "Revelation Book" cryptically in the hand of Christ. Here's a YOUTUBE video that even spotted it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNYXeJw_2Q
The sign is seen by the secret anointed, but God caused it to appear to a skyscape photographer and I have a scan of the photo, which is here:
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/clouddove.jpg
So this is proof the messiah actually did arrive, and since the Revelation book came out in 1988, the "sign" must have been seen by the anointed sometime before that.
So, as the Bible also prophesied. Some would be ready for the Christ when he arrived, paying attention, looking for the right things and at the right time. But for many others, he would come as a "thief in the night"; that is when they realize who he is, he would have already arrived without them knowing it.
So "my messiah" arrived in 1950 and I have evidence of the "sign of the son of man" to prove it. But then again, I go by the "day for a year" theory, a formula found in the BIBLE. Maybe we were meant to apply that formula to the "7 times" prophecy as well? If not, then YOUR messiah should have showed up about 7 years after the fall of Jerualem, whenever you feel comfortable dating that event and maybe that's why you think he hasn't arrived yet, because you are expecting him at the wrong time?
"A day for a year"? Versus NO day for a year? As they say, "The proof is in the pudding." Everything Matthew, Mark and Luke had prophesied is being fulfilled. At least for me it is.
You're waiting for a different messiah, I guess. Mine has arrived already. And right on time, too! with the "sign of the son of man" along with him.
JCanon
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B_Deserter
Precisely my main problem with JW doctrine. For scriptures that clearly only have one fulfillment, the Watchtower invents the concept of dual fulfillment, a confusing doctrine that parallels random prophecies in the Bible to our day. This kind of chronocentrism leads generation after generation of witnesses to believe that the end is going to happen within the next couple days/years/months because their time is "special." Any truly critical analysis of JW teachings will reveal that there is absolutely no basis for the idea of dual fulfillment. There is no basis for teaching that Jesus was talking about anything other than the destruction of the temple with his "great tribulation" speech. The fact that the organization goes to such great lengths with their "kangaroo-hopping" proves that they are victims of their own wishful thinking, their dogma no more credible than seeing shapes in clouds.
