Did they change that understanding, yet again, since the big change in 1995?
Generation problem is a self-inflicted wound
by Doug Mason 17 Replies latest watchtower bible
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deaconbluez
"A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you."
Okay. What are we to do with this? When is this applied?
"A day for a year" at Ezekiel chapter 4 wasn't in any way a measuring stick to be used for prophecy throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. God wanted Ezekiel to literally lay on his right side for 40 days, to symbolize the 40 years of Judah's iniquity. To apply that verse to anything else in the Bible is going beyond what is written.
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JCanon
Precisely my main problem with JW doctrine. For scriptures that clearly only have one fulfillment, the Watchtower invents the concept of dual fulfillment, a confusing doctrine that parallels random prophecies in the Bible to our day. This kind of chronocentrism leads generation after generation of witnesses to believe that the end is going to happen within the next couple days/years/months because their time is "special." Any truly critical analysis of JW teachings will reveal that there is absolutely no basis for the idea of dual fulfillment. There is no basis for teaching that Jesus was talking about anything other than the destruction of the temple with his "great tribulation" speech. The fact that the organization goes to such great lengths with their "kangaroo-hopping" proves that they are victims of their own wishful thinking, their dogma no more credible than seeing shapes in clouds.
Nice speech and all, but there is NO CHOICE here. Once you read "a day for a year" then it opens up that potential for every single prophecy expressed in terms of days. And it definitely works out, time after time. Are all of these coincidences? For instance, the JUBILEE WEEK. You know that 490 years is set from 455 to 36 CE, right? Christ arrives at the 70th week, from 29-36 CE? Well 490 years is a period of 10 jubilees. Each jubilee period is 49 years each. The jubilee is the first year of every 49. It celebrates the 50th year of the previous 49-year period. The 455 BCE to 36 CE 70-week period, though, is just one "day" in a week of 70 weeks. It's the 3rd day, from the time the Jews were in Egypt. That is, 2 x 490 is 980 years. Add 980 years to 455 BCE and you get 1435 BCE. That is when the "week" began. This is when Moses was 30 years old. But that gives us three days. If we add 4 more days to make a week of 7 days, that is, a period of 3430 years, guess when that week ends? It ends in 1996! That is, 4 x 490 is 1960 + 36 = 1996. But guess what. If each day is 10 jubilees and there are 7 days, then there is a total of 70 jubilee periods of 49 years each. The 70th jubilee would thus be a very special jubilee. The theme of the jubilee is restoration of land and return from bondage. If 1996 ends this entire week then it also ends the 70th jubilee which would begin 49 years earlier. Did anything happen of special signficance for the Jews 49 years earlier than 1996? 1996 minus 49 is 1947.
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/jcovwk1996G.GIF
So pretend there are no secret numbers in the Bible all you wish. Those of us who are into the chronology know there are far too many fulfilled patterns and events not to know the calculations are not correct.
I mean, doesn't it bother you that 1947 is such a pivotal date? The date for the restoration of Israel to Palestine and thus the end of the 1290 days, the end of the "gentile times"? In that case the messiah arrives to fulfill the 1335 days, 45 years later in 1992. But 1992 also has to be 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem. Thus 1992 requires coordination with the Bible's timeline so that Jerusalem falls specifically in 529 BCE.
The 70 weeks prophecy that begins in 455 BCE begins with the "word going forth to rebuild Jerusalem." When that is correctly dated to the 1st of Cyrus, then the 70 years of desolation and servitude beginning with the last deportation occur in 525 BCE. (455 + 70 = 525 BCE). That means the fall of Jerusalem, per the Bible, 4 years earlier occurs in 529 BCE. Hmmmmm.... Now where have we seen that number before?
Plus, you know how Christ arrives during the 70th week for the first coming? Well the 70th week of the last 490-years from 1506-1996 is from 1989-1996. 1992 falls in the middle of this week. Thus if Christ did arrive in 1992, he would fullfill arriving during the 70th week again at the second coming? And why not?
The Bible's numbers and chronology were not put in there to ignore. Unless, like the foolish virgins, you don't think it's necessary to look into every aspect of the Bible. When you make that mistake through, you won't have enough light to find the messiah when he arrives. Those who are into chronology and numerical patterns of fulfillment are reassured about the dating for the messiah and when he is to arrive, thus they get into the kingdom.
Now it's one thing that some shy away from this, because they are just not mathematically inclined. That's understandable. They want it to be easier. That's one thing. But is someone works out all the chronology for you and gives you all the fulfillments that check out with all the cross-matched prophecies and then you decide you are not interested. That's another thing. You can't use "I'm not good with numbers" excuse at that point. You're held liable. Finally, if you search the web, you'll see many other individuals and churchs are into chronology and are coming up with some of the same basic numbers. Here's a quote from one:
If 1917 was the termination of 1260 years, then the 1290 years would have been 30 years later -- the year 1947-48! That is the year when the United Nations voted to establish the state of Israel in the Middle East, and Israel fought off Arab invasion and became a nation! This would mean that the 1335 years would be an additional 45 years later -- or 1992-93! That was the year of the beginning of the Oslo Peace Accords, with their signing at the White House by Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Rabin and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat
From: http://www.triumphpro.com/1260,1290,1335.htm 1947 is clearly a date many recognize as pivotal to Bible prophecy. JCanon -
scholar
Doug Mason
Post 380
You say that the Society's interpretation is a 'self inflicted wound'. I disagree. Scholars and other expositors have for decades and centuries had problems with the interpretation of this phrase in Greek. A survey of older and recent commenraries proves the difficulty in determing what Jesus meant by the phrase 'this generation' so it is no wonder that the FDS have had to revise their views from time to time. I notice that SDA'S with whom you have had some association continue to experience a similar difficulty.
In the past we have moved from a temporal view involving chronology to a contemporary understanding in 1995 which also has exceeded its useful 'shelf life' and the time has come for a fresh look at this subject. Apparently, all will be revealed to the faithful and the unfaithful as all such are vitally intererested in the spiritual food of the FDS in the next scholarly journal of the Watchtower.
scholar JW
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JCanon
Hi Scholar:
Apparently, all will be revealed to the faithful and the unfaithful as all such are vitally intererested in the spiritual food of the FDS in the next scholarly journal of the Watchtower.
The GB was "disfellowshipped" as the evil slave and the "man of lawlessness" on November 10, 1992, then cast into spiritual darkness. Don't look for any light coming from this organization before it is destroyed along with Babylon the Great. The Bible ends the "great tribulation" before the second coming occurs: "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..." So they are clueless. That doesn't fit Armgeddon that the "sign of the son of man" needs to appear AFTER Armageddon is over, does it?
They can never have the correct understanding because they think Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE. It didn't. They made the mistake of relying on secular history for the 539 BCE date for the fall of Babylon, but now that is disproven secularly by the VAT4956. There is no way they can defend it. Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king and the Bible limits the rule of Darius I to just six years. They ignore the Bible here. So as long as they are ignoring what is in the Bible, they will continue to have "last generation" blues.
They don't have the truth....
JCanon
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deaconbluez
They can never have the correct understanding because they think Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE.
If you agree that it didn't, then how do you equate 2,520 days and 1914?
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deaconbluez
They can never have the correct understanding because they think Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE.
If you agree that it didn't, then how do you equate 2,520 days and 1914?
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JCanon
They can never have the correct understanding because they think Jerusalem fell in 607 BCE.
If you agree that it didn't, then how do you equate 2,520 days and 1914?There things are applied to 1914 by the witnesses; only one is applicable. 1) Last generation, 1914-1994 2) Second Coming 3) End of the gentile times. #1 is correct. The "last generation" begins with a world war. So 1914 works for beginning the last generation of 1914-1994. #2 is incorrect. Jerusalem fell in 529 BC, meaning the second coming occurs in 1992. This is cross-referenced by the 1335-days prophecy where the messiah arrives 45 years after the restoration of the Jews back to their homeland. 1947 thus ends the "1290 days" and represents the prophesied "end of the gentile times." 45 plus 1947 is 1992. If you count 490-year periods from 36 CE, which is the end of the 70th week of the first coming, then another 70th week occurs from 1989-1996. That is 4 x 490 = 1960. Add to 36 CE = 1996. The second coming fulfills the 70th week also, so the messiah arrives during the week of 1989-1996. "Ends gift and sacrifice" occurs twice; the animal sacrifices when Christ dies the first time at midweek in 33. The second time Christ arrives he "ends gift and sacrifice" when he eats the last Memorial, that was held annually in memorial of him until he returns. Thus Christ cannot arrive more than a year prior to April 6, 1993, meaning between passover of 1992 and passover of 1993 (April 6). See? Same year for the second coming confirmed x 3. So again, the Second Coming date is not 1914 but 1992. The 2520 years is applied to 529 BCE, not 607 BCE. Biblically speaking, the 70 weeks begins "when the word goes forth to rebuild Jerusalem." The witnesses apply 455 BCE to the 20th of Artaxerxes when Nehemiah directed the rebuilding of the walls. But this was just repair work of the walls already rebuilt, plus there were other buildings built by tihs time including the temple. This work only took 52 days. So how is it this fulfills the word going forth to rebuild Jerusalem in relation to it having been totally destroyed at the time of the prophecy? Indeed, the correct interpretation is when it first began to be rebuilt and that was in the 1st of Cyrus. So we move 455 BCE to the 1st of Cyrus. That suggests 82 years of fake Persian history was added (455 vs 537 BCE), but we've located exactly where those fake 82 years are, so no problem (i.e. Kambyses ruled 7 vs 8 years (-1), Darius I ruled 6 years (per Bible Ezra 6:14,15 so no choice, 6 vs 36 (-30); Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king (-21), and the extended 47-year rule of Artaxerxes II is also reduced by 30 (-30). -1, -30, -21, -30 equal 82 years. No problem). If the 1st of Cyrus occurs in 455 BCE, then the 70 years of desolation/servitude of last deportees has to be dated to 525 BCE, which is year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II. In that case, year 19 falls in 529 BCE. So 529 BCE is the Biblically accurate date. But we can now confirm that with either the SK400 or VAT4956 astrotexts which hide the original chronology with the other dates in a diary. Quite clever. "Hide in plain sight." There are five copies of the VAT4956 or fragments that have been found. It is clear they wanted this text to survive. It holds the key to the original chronology. The VAT4956 likewise may have been copied several times to preserve this secret. But now that we have BOTH texts confirming the same rule for Nebuchadnezzar (SK400 confirms year 7 in 541 BCE, VAT4956 confirms year 37 in 511 BCE), there's no issue about correcting the NB timeline and confirming the Persians revised the timeline when they tried to claim Xerxes was Artaxerxes. The archaeological data supports this from Persepolis, Behistun and Naqshi-Rustam. So there's no way around this at this point. You either close your eyes or accept reality. #3. As noted above, the true "end of the gentile times" is not in 1914. How could the "gentile times" end in 1914? The Jews still did not control Palestine? They were still officially in exile. Still awaiting the "great tribulation" which would exterminate two-thirds their numbers in Europe (Zech 13:8). This was the "dashing of the holy ones to pieces" associated with the 1290 days (Daniel 12) which when it was over, the Jews would see the messiah 45 years later. 1947 is when the "trampling of Jerusalem" ended when the Jews were given their land back on November 30, 1947. SUMMARY: 1914 is good for "last generation", 1914-1994 1914 is incorrect for second coming, which occurs in 1992. 1914 is incorrect for "end of the gentile times" which occurs in 1947, 45 years prior to the second coming, fulfilling the 1290 and 1335 days prophecy. Of course, the sign of the son of man began appearing when the second coming messiah was born, who would be tested for 40 years before the 70th week (1989-1996) thus 1949-1989. There would be "darkness of the sun and moon and stars" that would occurr immediately after the tribulation of those days, That is after the Holocaust and the end of the gentile times in 1947, there would be spiritual darkness in God's own house regarding chronology and when the messiah would arrive. This represents the "nodding" of the 10 virgins and their lamps burning low in regard to he correct dating of the messiah. This was necessary for the events connected with the messiah to occur. If his idenity was known in advance, it would conflict with the 40-year testing as even the messiah did not know who he was. The 70th week began in the fall of 1989 and the messiah was anointed at midweek late in 1992. A photograph of the sign was made in 1998, but the Revelation book proves it had been seen earlier than 1998 by the anointed as elements of the sign are depicted in their subliminal art. So this is REAL.
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/clouddove.jpg (Photo of 1998 sign)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdNYXeJw_2Q (Youtube images)
People can't believe this because they weren't in on it, but the Bible says that Christ would "come as a thief" for the majority of people not paying attention, and you can see how many people think they are so smart by ignoring chronology; so, of course, they are shocked when they find out he has already been here since 1992. So EVERYTHING is occurring just as the Bible has said, right down to the very year.
I, of course, share this information so that when the "great tribulation" starts and everybody sees the "Illuminati" (BTG) along with Christendom and the False-Prophet WTS being destroyed and their funds confiscated they will have no excuse and will know that Armageddon has begun. Those not already inside the kingdom arrangement will then want to get in, but it will be too late. As the Bible points out, many will have heard these details from Christ himself, who "taught in [their] broadways". So they know the details, just didn't bother taking it seriously until it was too late. When the second "great tribulation" begins, all the above will be confirmed all the moreso.
In the meantime, the JIOR, those associated with Christ, now have the advanced understanding of the Bible and the corrected ancient timeline. They are simply waiting for the last holy one to be sealed before all hell breaks loose at the time of the great tribulation. (Revelation says the "four winds" are held back until the sealing is completed). It's been c. 15 years since the second coming in 1992. The number of the anointed must be close to being filled by now. After Armageddon, the survivors are going to have a big celebration and get anything they want out of the stores for free! I can't wait!
"And they took no note until the flood came and swept them away" must again occur. People who hear the truth and reject it, until it's too late.
JCanon
