Throwing the Baby out with the Bathwater Goodbye Watchtower Hello Nothing?

by Magick 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Roddy

  I used to believe as you do. I bought the entire package hook, line, and sinker.

  Rather late in life I discovered that "religion is a snare and a racket".

  I still believe in God even though those that teach "the truth" about God have been the worst kinds of abusers. I hope God has mercy on those that have been so abused.

  I also hope that God would take a more active part in human affairs. I find his aloofness this late in the game rather disheartening. If he can make just the briefest of manifestations on the world scene today it would do the world a world of good - if you pardon the pun. Mankind would know that it is not really alone in the universe. And that there is a God after all!
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  AlmostAtheist

  In my case, I threw the baby out first -- the bathwater was just along for the ride.

  But you make the point that religion does not equal Watchtower, and organized religion doesn't equal worship. Very valid points that need to be brought up. Thank you for the post.

  Dave
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  nvrgnbk

  Magick is but Man in harmony with the undisputable Cosmic Laws of Nature and the Universe. The Magickal Personality is one that recognizes, accepts and merges with these energies to manifest a desired situation in reality.

  Magick is not a belief of supernatural quality, rather the understanding of all things natural in accordance with the Cosmic Laws of the Universe. All that is existant is a sanction of the cosmos. This phenomena occurs through the most natural channels and in complete accordance to those immutable Laws.
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  Magick

  PS- Now, you have earned the right to have a cold one!BA

  thank u. i think we all have earned that right...so here's a toast to you and all of our friends here on JWD who have been unjustly hurt by a man-made religion and survived. "May you find peace of mind, self-acceptance and a heart & home full of real friends"

  I could see you on a picket line holding a sign!....oompa

  thanks oompa. one look into your eye...and i'd do anything.

  I just cannot make myself believe in any god. Once you can see millions of people in one religion can be wrong, it's easy to see that the other religions cancel each other out in a way. They can't all be right, and there's no reason to believe in one over the others. serotonin_wraith

  i know. i have felt the same way.

  Whom shall we go to" in the bible isn't referring to a church or the JW's who think they have the "Truth" exclusively. According to the sciptures it is Jesus that we have to go to on a personal level Maddie

  hi maddie, i admire people who have a personal relationship with jesus. they seem so content.

  I see what you're saying, but speeches like this are just like telling a lesbian she doesn't really like women because she "hasn't had a real man yet." B_Deserter

  i love your argument. starting out with a lesbian analogy is priceless!

  The fact that there are many things we do not know about the universe is not proof that God did it. B_Deserter

  you're right. my little "speech" was intended for everyone who has left (or is thinking about leaving) the watchtower organization. we all have residual "programming" we have to deal with. our experience was unhealthy and dysfunctional. not only were we abused religiously, but we were abused emotionally upon our exit. mentally, this is not the best time to make life/belief choices. the all or nothing mentality comes with us if we are not careful. exjws will choose to be atheists or born again fundamentalists. many however choose nothing. that nothing creates a vacuum that leaves us feeling "empty" "like we're missing something" void of spirituality. the analogy of the baby and bathwater could mean god or it could mean values and ethics.

  Even if someone doesn't believe in God, some of the lessons from the bible are indispensable, just as are parts of The Tao, the Koran, or any other religious writings wanderlustguy

  yes, i agree.

  I became agnostic for a long while. Now I truly believe that the purest form of "spirituality" as you defined it, Magick, does not need to involve an unseen superior being of some sort. Like B_Deserter said, there's not enough evidence to believe in a personal God who has not made himself or itself plain. I can't rule it out entirely, but I simply don't believe.

  My spirituality involves life, loving, caring and sharing. I believe in goodness toward humanity, a goodness not prompted by some external source, but by myself -- from inside of me. Gopher

  i know. i have bounced back and forth...but remain the longest on Agnosticism. Nature moves me to want to believe in a higher power yet I am filled with skepticism. the fact that i cannot rule anything out leaves room for my own spiritual growth. Rejecting an entire (all-knowing) belief structure that was taught to me from infancy has led to confusion, isolation, fear, guilt, shame, lack of confidence, inability to make decisions and a great mistrust in humanity. the thought that i was "bad" or "evil" and no longer in god's favor...led me to question EVERYTHING, including values, morality, sin. NO RULES instead of ALL RULES seemed the right choice. If I believed in god, then the belief in angels was not far behind...then what about demons...then what about the bible? etc. etc. If I am going to die as an apostate...might as well have fun while i'm here right?

  In my experience, it has been truly liberating to throw both the Watchtower and the Bible out together, and any less than that is curtailing the need for us humans to take personal responsibility for our lives instead of this infantile expectation that the Monster in the sky will somehow take care of us.

  I t's not so much a matter as throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but throwing a very demanding monster out with the bathwater so that we as babies can finally grow up . steve2

  yes, i agree about the watchtower...and maybe the bible (don't stone me people) but, i'm thinking the "monster" we "served" was a man-made creation. there could be something beyond us that isn't at all what we have been taught.
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  dinah

  Man-Made Monster----you hit the nail on the head.
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  slmdf

  GREAT post! We have been so used to having something clearly defined for us, we get scared if we 'don't know'. I appreciate you sharing. I've only been out a little less than a year and I surely don't know what I believe. But, I'm discovering for the first time in my life that I can and will figure it out... by thinking and feeling my way through it.

  Thanks for the wonderful words.
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  R.Crusoe

  When I was 4 years old the tip of one of my fingers lay dangling by a shred of skin after I'd tried lifting a heavy grid. I looked at it surprised and immediately thought of how I'd always have a flat end on this finger, just before the numbness started to fade and the pain kicked in! I have a distinct memory of this event. A week or two later I stood in the sun in the exact same spot analyzing my finger for signs of the almost perfectly healed wound. I looked up at the sky and said in silence, 'How did you do that?' It is fine that some things mend to our amazement whilst we do nothing but wonder and wait. And it lightens up the soul when each of us realize the life on our planet continues with or without each of us. Someday we may all learn how to let our hearts beat with it and not stress over thinking it our job to change it. There are forces at work which can do more without our input than with it. Learning to know when we can help is for each of us to work out for ourselves. At the end of our time it is between each of us and the one who put us here - no one elses opinion matters!
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  James Free

  We come to understand that RELIGION is created by human beings.

  This is true. WHY do humans create religions? Because they do not want to accept that this life is all there is. So they start seeking a 'spiritual' side, since it is clear that physically this is indeed all there is. (There are religions that combine spirituality with the physical and conclude that the physical is re-born, reincarnated).
  
  The 'spiritual' side that is born of imagination and hope is without definition, and so, in a vain attempt to understand it, humans wrap it in religion.
  
  It's unlikely we will ever all accept that it is all a delusion, that, in fact, this short life is actually all there is. If we did, we would know truth, but we would also know anarchy.
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  Magick

  Personally I found that JWs were not at all spiritual people. I know we've had discussions before and will again, about what that means. But personally I am significantly more spiritual now than I ever was as a JW. Gretchen956

  hi Gretchen, I know. I thought I was spiritual...I was just among those who were more susceptible to their programming. I had "annointed" in the family. I was baptized at a VERY young age (under 10). regular pioneer. family full of witnesses, elders, pioneers, ministerial servants. plus, I was obedient and loyal...willing to do everything i could for jehovah (the watchtower) all this adds up to a RICH breading ground of brainwashing. believe it or not, there were glimpses of spirituality in my life....all ignored and suppressed. since leaving the watchtower organization (mind control) i have felt a strong spiritual desire.
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  Magick

  IMHO, the GB painted God as an ogre. They did that to keep fear in us, which kept us in fear of God and in turn in fear of God's true spokemen on earth. (Just typing that God' s true spokesmen part made me throw up). It was the fear of them they needed to keep up going door to door. I'm sure God didn't give a rat's ass how many magazines we placed. dinah

  dinah, this was one of the big things that i swallowed whole without chewing. how can an all-loving god be a huge proponent of slavery, an advocate of both animal and human sacrifice, a flagrant misogynist AND a baby killer? it did not compute. why was jesus so nice and god was so vengeful? we didn't have hell...but, we had hell to pay if we didn't go out in service. plus, if we ever leave the organization we are programmed to self-destruct.