Biblical morals.

by Anti-Christ 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  nvrgnbk

  There is no such thing [as morality] without the supposition of a God."

  I could not disagree more.
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  5go

  I agree with John Adams who wrote of "the light of humanistic morality", "...you and yours, have become the dupes of your own atheism and profligacy, your nonsensical notions of liberty, equality, and fraternity....Your philosophy, has waged a more cruel war on truth than was ever attempted by king or priest...There is no such thing [as morality] without the supposition of a God."

  You there is an old saying there are no atheist in foxholes ( which is a lie BTW http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/ ) The reason being they are cowards or something. No it is because they will not fight in a war and kill fellow humans without a damn good reason to do it. Just because of god and country said to do it is not good enough for an most atheists. They more often than not want to know the real reason they are being sent to fight.
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  VoidEater

  BA: I couldn't agree more. Thank you for that quote and sentiment. What I hope for then is that more people can engage in experiences that take them outside of their head for a time, give the observer within themselves a chance to develop.

  Emy: God is necessary for morality? Hmm, I used to think so, and this experience of the Divine I carry within me used to be interpreted so. And it is certainly heartening that John Adams (who you quote) was a Unitarian, which would tend to make him a rather liberal flavor of Christian.

  But if I name this sense of Divinity within me something else - "compassion for man"? "humanity"? Does that make me any less moral? Or does it make me more intimately accountable for my morality?

  Despite some negative experiences with Athiests, I would have to say that the two most moral people I have ever met on the planet did not believe in the existance of God.

  So, while I respect that experience of the Divine within me, and I respect that people like Adams find a moral path based on their sense of God, I would have to say that God is not a necessity - just a useful convention for some (like me?) and a hideous weapon in the hands of others.
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  RSMHobbit

  Suggestion Anti-Christ

  Next time you want to bash the Bible, make it a little less obvious. Then again some of use can't help but be obvious I suppose. Secondly, I suggest you actually pick the book up and read Hebrews (I am assuming that you can read.)

  Ofcourse this if more than likely a feeble attempt to bash the Bible in which case you did a very poor job but again we all have our limitations.
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  emy the infidel

  Void -- I agree with you, and know and am friends with the kind of atheists that you describe. The subject though, being morals, supposes that Judeo-Christian morals in particular should be cast off in favor of "the light of humanistic morality". (this can be clearly seen in the article posted by Nvr) This "light of humanistic morality" has been tried, and it went down as a total failure, the French Revolution.

  The successes, which produce social order that makes prosperity possible for the greatest number of people, have been the gov'ts founded on Judeo-Christian principles of morality.

  John Adams was responding to a popular book of his time that touted the "light of humanistic morality".
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  5go

  The successes, which produce social order that makes prosperity possible for the greatest number of people, have been the gov'ts founded on Judeo-Christian principles of morality.

  Can you point out which principles of morality you are refering too.
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  Anti-Christ

  Next time you want to bash the Bible, make it a little less obvious. Then again some of use can't help but be obvious I suppose. Secondly, I suggest you actually pick the book up and read Hebrews (I am assuming that you can read.)

  Ofcourse this if more than likely a feeble attempt to bash the Bible in which case you did a very poor job but again we all have our limitations.

  Cool! My first insult. Welcome to the board.

  What's wrong with bashing the bible? I have read the bible many many times and it's funny that after reading with out the influence of a religion I have notice a lot of things that I did not notice before because of the mind control and religion likes to redirect your attention on other subjects.

  If you want more bible bashing go see my other topics. Internet infidels has a lot of good information and evilbilbe.com also.

  BTW trying to insult someone is not a good argument.
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  Anti-Christ

  The successes, which produce social order that makes prosperity possible for the greatest number of people, have been the gov'ts founded on Judeo-Christian principles of morality.

  What about other countries that did not have the Judeo-Christian influence? I get the bible does have good principals in them but it also has some not that good and a lot of other holy books have good and not so good principals in them. I just see all these holy books as humanity trying to find order in chaos and explain nature. Maybe there is some kind of "force" trying to help us evolve but one thing's for sure in my mind, you can't take every word in these books as absolute truth.
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  VoidEater

  Hi Emy: I suppose the investigation to engage with then would be to evaluate a group of experiments (France, Rome, Greece?), set a standard for "success" (was France successful? The Roman Empire? Ancient Greece? What is "success"), and see what "morality" they were based on.

  I'm not sure I would agree that the most successful cultures are Judeo-Christian-based. But am curious about it. I would wonder about: what's the distinctly Judeo part of a society's morality, the distinctly Christian part? What are the moral codes that set this philosophy apart from others? Can we compare a large enough segment of cultures - secular, Judeo-Christian, others? Is there a significant difference in their basic precepts in the framwork of a culture, that affect the culture? What makes for a "success" - time to collapse? Socio-economic averages? Scientific successes? Military might? Is it relevent that Christianity is such a relatively new development on the cultural scene?

  Though perhaps off-topic, I do find it intriguing...