by NewbieGirl 22 Replies latest jw friends
I wouldn't really say point out some of their weaker points so that they can see the real truth but do so just so you'll feel better arguing with them. I know I did that when some elders were out in field service and didn't realize whose house they were at. It felt great and I still get a good laugh out of it when I think about it, especially the frightened looks on their faces!
I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven.
Hi NewbieGirl,
I'm the same, I think I'm going to say this or that to any JWs I come across but do I - NO!
I had a phonecall from the sister I studied with from my old congregation, after I wrote to tell her that I am now disassociated, I wanted to tell her about the UN stuff and what I am reading in COC, but I couldn't! She kept saying about the new system and how I won't be there, so in the end I said that's if you believe it which I don't!!!She said goodbye quite quickly then! She is not particularly strong in 'the truth' but she is still brainwashed. I guess I may not hear from her any time soon!
Anyway, hopefully soon we will be really good apostates and live up to our name!!!!
Lesley
p.s. What part of the UK are you from? We're in Northamptonshire, but used to live in Milton Keynes.
NewbieGirl:
Can understand exactly what you mean as well. Even now, after 16 years I have a difficult time dealing at least with family members who start in, especially "da mom". She can still leave me feeling like a blubbering idiot.
but, it does get easier with JW's you don't know - in fact it can be fun. There was one time my boyfriend and I were in a rather heated argument when guess who shows up? lol - I answered the door w/mascara streaming down my face and they were of course a little taken back. They asked if this was a bad time, and because of the adrenaline rush I was having w/the argument answered "Yes it is - you see I'm being physically punished for not being submissive enough sexually". They left in quite a hasty retreat - didn't see them again for the entire 3 more years we lived there.
You'll get there - and sometimes it can be quite amusing.
NewbieGirl:
Don't feel inadequate on this because as others have mentioned, they would not have listened to anything you said. I recall that in going door to door, my goal was to be able to talk, not listen.
I even remember, one time while pioneering, calling on one young man and his wife who allowed me to give my doorstep rant and then from the Bible began to show me point by point why what I told them could not be the truth. Notwithstanding whether one believes the Bible itself to be the truth, he made a solid argument that Witness doctrine was not. The couple were very kind and invited me to come back again. I remember on returning to the car group how even though I had been outgunned, I basically trashed that nice couple to the others in my group. I never returned. For that I will always be ashamed. In retrospect, if I had examined what they told me, it might have changed my life in a positive way. But I will never know.
Richard
Try questions. They like questions because they have all the answers.
My question is going to be the one I researched that caused my exit.
(You teach Jesus returned in 1914 the same way he left, without public
fanfare and with just his faithful followers aware of it. Question:
Who were those faithful followers who were aware of it in 1914?)
I'll give you the answer ahead of time...None. It sure couldn't have
been jws because they were teaching he had already returned...in
1874, and they continued to teach that for at least a decade after
1914, maybe longer.)
But you might want to try something like: How many people have to witness a child being molested before you do anything about it?
Or, Why was the wts associated with the UN for nearly 10 years and
when it became well-known, they suddenly withdrew?
And if they ask where you are hearing these things, tell them It's all
over the internet, don't you guys keep up with anything? I'm not
even a witness and I know more about them then you do??
Also, David Reed has some excellent books that give guidelines on
witnessing to jws at Comments From the Friends that might help you
be a bit more polished about it.
Richard: My most memorable encounter, the one that has stayed with
me, answered my introductory question of How are you today? with "I am
blessed." and a smile to prove it. I never found her there again but
I kept going back because I knew she had something I did not.
Libby, too well-known for them to darkened my door, but I'm waiting.
Thanks for your comments everyone! I supose in a way I didn't explain myself correctly. I think Rhett was closer to my intention, I wanted to stand up to them, I know I have pretty much no chance talking them round, as brainwashed as they are, but I wanted to tell them MY views and what I thought of the whole thing.
I think that most JW's that know me locally have this impression that I still believe it all, and pity me for my inability to live up to their 'standards'. I just wanted to set them straight but instead probably gave them more reason to believe they have me sussed LOL.
I did approach a family member (Elder) about the UN issue and persued it for a couple of weeks but I could sense he was getting a bit annoyed with me so I left it, but I DID show him some of the things from here, the UN Website listing JW's, and the conditions for NGO membership so I acheived that at least. :)
I think I would stand a better chance if I was confronted on my doorstep by JW's that don't know me personally.. I could probably get some enjoyment out of that!
PS Lesley, I'm not too far away from you! Feel free to email me (and anyone else)
Hi NewbieGirl,
Never use the word "useless" about yourself --
We pick and choose which battles we choose to fight...that makes us intellegent - not useless.
IMHO
Hi Newbiegirl: Don't feel alone. I think Gopher's response is good. About 18 months after I walked away, but before I was formally DA'd, two JWs came to my door. I was working out of town, so they did not know me. The one Elder I briefly recalled from an earlier visit when I was still a JW, but he had forgotten me. The other was a visitng Circuit Overseer -- the kind with that 'high voltage' stare in his eye, and brown shoe polish in his hair.
When they called on me it was a return visit, and I had a Watchtower magazine in hand, the one from July 1992 that talked about 'hating apostates.' After they opened up with the usual presentation, I found a way to wedge in my concerns and show them the article I objected to. I was about the same age as the CO. I served as an Elder, and was a JW 25 years. So, I was well prepared, had the advantage, and was not afraid. Yet ...
When the CO opened his mouth, I felt a funny queezy nervousness. I felt ashamed of myself for not holding the control of the situation. The Elder and I had talked on a previous visit of his, and he was interested in my concern. But, the CO spotted me right away as someone who knew too much, and he terminated the conversation without really defending the Watch Tower policy of 'hating' apostates. I found myself raising my voice as he walked away, effectively saying he was too chicken to defend his religion. It was then I noticed myself shaking like a leaf. WOW!
Later on I called the Elder and asked him why they walked away. I acted like a totally ignorant person, and said that they come to my home uninvited, and when I have serious questions, they leav in a huff. The Elder admitted he was embarassed by the CO's conduct. He said he wanted to continue the conversation. But, he told me that the CO counseled him out in the car not to debate geneologies, and quoted a Scripture to that effect.
I objected saying that I was not discussing 'geneologies' but a simple questioin about the Watch Tower Society exhorting hatred of 'enemies' while Jesus exhorted us to 'love' our enemies. I asked them to simply reconcile it. He agreed he could not.
I finally figured out that the reason we get nervous around JWs who call on us is that we do not want them to think badly of us, and reject us, but we know they will. We are frustrated that they will not listen. So, we just stay quiet and let them talk lest we risk them leaving and rejecting us. If we even go to another town and open up skillfully, we still get nervous at coping with maintaining balance between fair discussion, and avoiding sounding like we know too much. The is what happened to me.
Then one day I remembered how 'intimidated' I felt by the JW Pioneer who introduced me to the JWs. It was his air of authority and self-confidence in his beliefs and mission. I evenbtually became somewhat like that too, and yet JWs in authority still made me nervous. So, I decided to change my style once again for the next JW that called on me.
About a year ago an Elder and his wife called on me in the Chicago area. I am from the west coast, so know one in the world knows me here. Instead of trying to present a specific concern with the JW religion and risk getting discovered as an ex-JW and then rejected, I just talked about my concerns with religion in general. But, I cited things that I knew the JWs would believe about themselves.
Oddly enough, the Elder got a little nervous, voice shaking, and he did not seem like the type that would get chicken, but his wife had to step in and try to reason with me. Her logic was terrible, and very typical of JW style of grasping at straws. I felt a new sense of confidence. I did not get nervous, and I could tell that when they left, they were shaken. They even left two magazines with me, and I invited them back, and set a specific appointment. They never showed up.
Reveal or not to reveal of JW past? Some ex-JW are quite open about their past experience with the organization. This usually means the one calling will then ask questions to ascertain if we are DF or DA, and will then decide to walk away. The ex-JWs who do this are being forthright and honest. But, they lose an opportunity to impart information to the JW calling on them.
I choose to avoid exposing my past experience as a JW. I have learned to ask generic questions in a way that scares the JWs, and it will get some thinking. I do not feel this is dishonest, because in myway of thinking, the issue is not about my previous membership, but about the 'beliefs, practices, and policies' of the religion. Once I made this shift, it became a whole lot easier for me to talk to JWs, and put out of my mind any pats memories of my JW fantasy world.
This went on longer than I intended, so I will stop here. Let me know what you think. - Amazing
Hi, NewbieGirl. Welcome to the board and welcome to freedom!
Once when the JW's came to our door, my daughter told them, "I've already been a Jehovah's witness." The poor JW lady was quite startled. She wondered why we left. To my surprise, she came back to visit once, but we were going out (having found lives of our own by then), and she never came back.
I appreciate the point made by Amazing about how the JW's seem so confident. In time, you will develop confidence in yourself and your right to find truth in your own way. As a teenager, when I became a JW, the JW thing gave me something to believe in, as I did not yet believe in myself or dare to think I should believe in myself.
It is a wonderful day when one realizes her own inner resolve and is no longer in need of a security blanket to appear confident.
I love the quotation from Emily Dickinson which goes something like this: "Those who do not find heaven below will miss of it above, for angels rent the house next ours wherever we remove." As COMF would tell you, if you don't have it within you, you won't find it out there! Be patient with yourself and don't feel that you must prove anything to anyone else.
I recommend that you read the book <i>The True Believer</i> by Eric Hoffer. I also recommend the film <i>Pleasantville</i>.
Regards,
Mum
Newbie Girl, you certainly did miss out on a perfect opportunity to anti-witness. But do not feel bad about it. Many of the friends have not even read the COC book and would be unprepaired if the opportunity to anti-witness came up. There are those who do the good work of throwing away the Watchtower and Afake magazines at coin-op laundry facilities and in the lobbies of businesses. But we need to ask ourselves, is this "passive" anti-witnessing really doing all we can to save those who may fall into the arms of the JWs? Are we putting forth the proper effort in our anti-witnessing activities? How many more innocent people could we help in avoiding the stumbling block of the Kingdom Hall if we took a more active role? Perhaps bringing the subject up ourselves at the water cooler at work or with a group of new friends. We must always be alert for any opportunity to anti-witness and we must keep diligent in this good work.
