Christopher hitchens said in his latest book that a if anyone want to truly know what it is like to live under a theocracy, then go live in north Korea.
Speaking of this author, religious people should read his book God Is Not Great and weep.
Why God permits wickedness..the argument and counter logic
by wherehasmyhairgone 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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steve2
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Inquisitor
Thanks for the eye-opener, wherehasmyhairgone.
I personally have never used this argument as a JW. I stuck to the landlord/tenant analogy whenever this topic came up. But it is always refreshing to see someone debunk the false logic of the WTS.
INQ
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jwfacts
A point that makes the WTS argument invalid, or paints God in an evil light as you have highlighted is that the Ransom Sacrifice was paid back 2000 years ago. There was no "legal" reason immediately afterwards that God could not have fixed things. (The JW answer to that of course is that God needed to let humans have time to trial extra forms of government to prove beyone doubt that they are not able to rule without him ... whatever!)
The other thing is that the Watchtower makes a big thing about Chronology. Jehovah was supposed to rest for 7000 years, and Jesus to rule for the last 1000, so the kingdom could not come before the end of 6000 years. (ie 1975) However, that to makes no sense, since the rest day started prior to mankinds sin. What are we to assume? That God started to rest, so when mankind sinned he said; "sorry I am resting and refuse to have my nap disturbed, I will not start ruling again until after the 7000 years, so we will just have to hold off Jesus until 1914. So sorry that billions have to suffer in the meantime." Just how tired does an all powerful everlasting God get creating things, and how effective is a 7000 year period of rest going to be?
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wherehasmyhairgone
The rest period is an interesting point.
As the WT likes the doctor/father story. god states he is going to rest when immediately condemns million to die in various human and disease acts, as he needs a day off!.
From what i know Doctor have to get legally limited to the amount of hours they work,...effectively being forced to stop helping, so from this doctors are more moral and caring than a god.
I need to start look at the other analogies used by the WT, I suspect they are all this weak and open to failed logic., i acutally had forgotton about the landlord and tennant story, imust have a look at that one.
I am actually pleased that the god of the bible resides only in the pages of myth, as some sort of comfort that the 2.5 million deaths in the OT by direct order of Jehovah is just a story, and for those who believe it true, his 2.8 million killing spree against Satan's 8. Its stack bad either way for this petty OT God.
And yes Mr Hitchings book, god is not Great should be required reading for anyone that wants an honest review of Christianity to date including the JW stance on Blood.
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WTWizard
That has to be the stupidest, most specious explanation I have ever heard in my life! First, why would the whole human race have the same "disease"? Wouldn't only some be affected?
The most specious part is that God had the power to use an alternative remedy. Suppose your child had cancer or some other disease that required a painful operation. The FDA has been disbanded a couple of years ago, and there are about 200 natural remedies that actually work. You, as the parent, are aware that one is a standout in your child's case, and that the allopathic remedy is by far the worst. So, would you choose the painful operation anyways?
Suppose you, as the child, had the indignity of undergoing the painful operation. Then, once you come of age, you learn that the FDA had been disbanded 2 years before your condition developed and that there were some 200 natural remedies that were all much better, with one standout for your case? (The standout would have absolutely cured you with no more than a cup of tea twice a day for a month, and would have left you in better health than had you never got the disease in the first place). Now, you learn that your parents opted for the operation just so they could gloat about how much they sacrificed for you? And, that they knew that the operation would only give partial relief and not a full cure? How would you feel then?
God never had an FDA to impede Him. He knows that there are, not just 200, but infinite natural remedies for us. And, He knows which one would stand out for each one of us. Given that, He could have exploited the original condition to make us even happier and healthier than we would have been without the condition. And it would involve no suffering beyond perhaps a little work (perhaps as much as it did to sign up to this forum). But, just so He could gloat about what He did for us, He chose the allopathic approach that He knew would cause tremendous suffering. And, to boot, an outcome that was the worst possible.
To me, that whole argument is totally specious. There was no reason why God couldn't have just removed the suffering. So what if we are "imperfect". The "imperfections" could have been exploited to create value, or removed with natural remedies (by fulfilling generously and promptly the underlying need instead of letting the problem develop). There is no way I will ever fall for this specious, stupid argument again. Nor will I ever use it without developing how it is blatantly stupid.
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steve2
The many and varied explanations regarding "God's" "permission" of wickedness have raged throughout the centuries as earnest believers have tried to put a reasonable spin on the continuation of human suffering. The volumes of writing on the topic could fill a jumbo jet several times over and in the end not make one jot of difference in the world. Regardless of the seemingly learned arguments that have been presented, they all have one thing in common: They are abjectly stupid in attempting to answer a question that anticpates some "Divine" purpose behind unspeakable human suffering.
Once our consciousness is raised regarding the faulty reasoning and silly analogies involved in answering this type of question, there is just no going back to the simple-minded drivel that "excuses" God and rubs salt into the wound of human suffering. Grimms fairy tales are more compelling by contrast.
To think of the wasted time we once spent vexing over this type of empty-headed question!
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R.Crusoe
It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his own step - let alone what we should all believe in. Women on the other hand......
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bobld
Nazi-Hilter had a plan for 1000 year rule.look what he done.Who knows maybe with todays technology his plan may have worked.I'am sure glad we got rid of that dictator,but how do we get rid of dictator-Jehovah.
bob
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blueviceroy
I can only speak for myself , the suffering I endured thus far in this life at the hands of other or myself has been a blessing insamuch that it was for the most part a catylist for change and an oportunity to improve.
During the suffering I would say it was not a blessing .( I too was ass raped void eater)
People are cruel , selfish , mindless, sleepwalking dolts that do nothing but damage and take selfishly, they are also the paradigm of greatness when the true nature is awakened.
Life is a crucible and we all polarize into positive or negative , the waking or the sleeping. The aware suffer at the hands of the sleeping.
It isn't somethin allowed it just is,logic has no place in a disscussion of lifes certainties , we either accept what is and grow strong ,or wish for another state of existence and suffer for the longing we feel.
I choose to learn from suffering and am proud to have survived.
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The Oracle
A defenseless child screams for help.
An old woman lies in bed dying of cancer.
A little boy tries to get up, but he is unable. He is too hungry.
Jehovah God. You have failed humanity.
Your divine plan for the ages is flawed.
Your promised end does not justify your means.
Your haphazard roadmap to paradise is filled with evil and suffering.
Don't blame anyone else.
You're in charge. You are responsible. And for this, you disgust me.
You have been weighed on the scales of justice and have been judged unworthy.
You've been voted off the planet.
Please leave tribal council immediately.