lucid dream, wicked spirits, demons questions!!

by gotcha 27 Replies latest jw friends

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  patio34

  Seeker,
  Thanks for the recommendation of Sagan's book.

  I would have said 'no' to having such experiences, however, I just remembered off and on for years feeling the bed shake and waking up if felt so real. However, I live in California and temblors could cause it!

  But another phenomon is feeling/sensing large creatures running over the bed or back of the sofa. One morning, after sleeping on the sofa, I got up and checked under it for rodent droppings! There were none.

  But I don't think I ever attributed it to demons. Maybe once or twice years ago, but not now.

  I'll be looking forward to Sagan's explanation of such experiences.

  Pat
• 

  Seeker

  Pat,

  Yes, you'll definitely enjoy Sagan's book, for you will see you are very much not alone in experiencing such things. Such experiences are absolutely real to the person having them, and yet...well, enjoy the book.
• 

  gotcha

  mazza....but u know it's really different here... i mean put it this way...western medicine vs eastern medicine....some eastern medicines have turned out to be better cures for cancer than that of chemotherapy or radiation..sometimes human experience overpowers that of scientific explanation...it's really hard to understand what im trying to say coz we come from very diverse backgrounds...hehe this seems BS when im writing this in this board but when talking with someone from the Phils..most could well relate to what im talking about..try asking your wife's friend..hehe

  sorry if this is getting to be so weird!! hehe
• 

  JanH

  Ever heard of cargo cults? It is a name given to certain new religious movements that originated, several of them independently, among natives on pacific islands after WWII. During the war, Americans had countless navy and air force bases across the Pacific, where the perplexed natives could see airplanes take off and land. The American servicemen shared food and other items with the natives, who came to appreciate stuff like Coca-Cola and chewing gum for the first time.

  After the war, the number of American bases was reduced considerably, and the Americans disappeared from these islands, leaving the natives confused behind. Shortly, a new group of religions took hold. The natives made replicas of American war- and transport planes with primitive materials, and started to use these in their worship, praying that the "gods" would return with their precious cargo. The cargo cults were born.

  This is perhaps the first time anthropologers and other scholars have been able to witness the origin of a religion. We know exactly what external forces influenced the religious idea. We know that the religious theories and myths were based on a lack of understanding of technology and the world around them.

  The natives on the pacific islands are neither dumber nor smarter than those who originated religions like Judaism, Islam or Christianity. These, and all other old religions, originated among deeply superstitious and (by our standards) ignorant people. They were not stupid, but their postulating a god or cosmic spirit to explain the universe and human beings was based on lack of knowledge.

  That people living today, knowing (or at least being able to know) that the universe and humans do not need supernatural beings to explain their workings and origins, and still choose to believe that such things exist, is comparable to a former cargo-cultist becoming a pilot, yet retaining his faith that his tribal friends' worship of the plane replicas really will bring them the precious "cargo" Real Soon Now.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  Satanus

  Liberated

  Sleep paralysis, from what i have read about it, and the shaking that you described are preliminary stages toward an out of body experience (obe). Some also feel a vibrating or a loud rushing noise. There is a lot about this on the net, if you care to search. Naturally, most experiencers are afraid and wonder what the heck is going on. After exiting, many kinds of unusual experiences can come, some wierd, some bad, some good, some neutral. Robert munroe wrote a book about his. He did all kinds of experiments in this area. Later on he established a centre, where people actually go and pay to learn how to do this type of thing without the bugs and haphazardness. He uses sound to induce a type of obe. The sound technology is called hemisync. Many of these sound tapes are available through mp3 sharings like audiogalaxy or morpheous. He has a lot of info on his site. Bruce moen has written three books about his own explorations with hemisync. A guy not connected with munroe, who has explored related areas on his own, is an australian called robert bruce. A hindu writing called yoga sutras of patanjali goes into this a bit.

  While i recognize there are many on this board that don't believe in the existence of a substance such as spirit, my readings and experiences up to this point anyway, leads me to believe there is. This is hard to prove scientifically, since scientists don't deal in the spiritual. Some experiments have been done though. The ones ingo swann was in were interesting, but most scientists don't take the field seriously anyway. Also, experiments that have been done havn't been consistent. While spiritual exploration is as old as the hills, in the west it is still in its infancy.

  Sorry i'm blabbering.
• 

  gotcha

  at this very moment there's this tv show here which is featuring spirit questors and how they are contacting spirits which are not at peace...it is so freaky..i cant even watch it...have no one here to watch it with me

  i agree with your pt. in religion jan ..but i tend to believe based from human experience there's really a spirit realm...(maybe spirits are more abundant here in asia than there just kidding hehe)
• 

  Sirona

  Hi Abaddon

  You are right, I should not have said "verified". What I meant was, some experiences seem to have no other explanation than a spirit of some kind being involved.

  On MSILs thread about agnosticism, I posted my own experience of a message received from a spirit. I cant explain this experience other than saying that a deceased person gave me a message.

  Some consideration should maybe be given to "other phenomena". E.g. if I get a message in pictoral form in my head....where is that message coming from? It is possible that it comes not from a conscious being, but from a connection I have somehow made. Radio waves can be picked up by a mechanical device, so why cant energies of another kind be picked up in our minds?

  Gotcha - I think educate your mum about the medical condition and other explanations. These may reduce her tension over the whole thing, which can only have a good effect. Also, you may ask her why she things Jehovah is letting this happen continuously to her? Surely Jehovah could protect her all the time instead of just when she says his name?

  Sirona
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  Satanus

  Mazza

  In connection with electrical stimulation of the brain producng 'psychic' results and bringing back memories, i have a theory that the brain acts as a filter/valve for reality. (Of course, it can fool a person into accepting unreality as well.) Everyday, people's brains automatically filter and sensor everything. Most of what goes on around us is rejected from the conscious mind.

  My theory is that as the brain regulates incoming information from the 5 senses, it also is involved in controling input from other senses. So artificial brain stimulation with electricity or drugs can open this 'valve' to stuff that might be considered spiritual. People always try to fit spiritual experiences into their own paricular theology. If it doesn't fit, their brains may refashion the perception so it does, or reject it from consciuos memory. The person could go nuts too. IMO
• 

  gotcha

  thanks guys...

  sirona - i'll try to do that but i dont want to give her any ideas anymore coz i think this experience of hers has actually mellowed down

  most tend to feel that spirits are just a figment of one's imagination but it can also be otherwise...what we experience we try to find an explanation for and as many her say through reason and not just equating it to some spirit or something but this might also speak of something in us..maybe we're just too freaked to find out that there's that other realm so we tend to rationalize things...
• 

  Mum

  Jan, I once read a book called "The History of the End of the World" or some such title, and there was a chapter on cargo cults.

  In this book, the island natives would observe that Europeans or Americans apparently did no work but sat at desks and filled out papers, which activity led to cargo ships bringing supplies. So the natives would sit for hours at desks writing illiterate scrawl on paper and, when nothing happened, setting a vase of flowers on their desks or whatever else they observed.

  According to the story, some of the natives finally asked the "secret" of getting the ships to come. After all, they said, they had been Christians for 40 years or so and felt entitled to be let in on the "secret."