by the widow 18 Replies latest jw friends
Heaven is here right now , when we die who knows. Hell is also here right now , your perspective is the entirety of you subjective experience.
I like to think that when I'm done doing whatever I'm supposed to be doing here ( learning , correcting , experiencing , saving ) is complete I will have the good sense not to return again , LOL!!
I wish you strength in your journey , and may you find the heaven you seek , much love BLUE.
People think all kinds of things. Most likely based on what they have heard or read. I hope that our essence goes someplace better when we die. It's obvious that our bodies dont. I think the fact that we are alive and complexly and wonderfully made and to my eye more designed than evolved is a hint that there is more to this journey or trip. On the other hand if we evolved from amoebas than this is it, its over when your dead. At least thats what I make out of it. Unless one wants to say that god directs evolution or started abinogenisis. Then you have god back in the picture again. The best I come up with is we are all parts of god, all parts of conciousness. Spirits having material experiences because the material realm is where the action is. We come to this planet, dimension and deny ourselves rememberance of our origens, if we didnt, there would be no drama or excitement. And the lack of drama, and excitement is why we left heaven/ paradise to come here in the first place for this trip. And we do it over and over for all eternity. I would think we might even live on other planets and dimensions. We matereialize live for a time go back to heaven/ paradise reflect on our experience hang out where nothing can go wrong which boils down to nothing happens. We hang out there till we get bored then reincarnate. We come back as people, animals insects trees and when we reach budahood we come back as rocks and mountains. But we like to come back as people a lot. Watch the movie "What dreams may come" with Robin Williams it will give you an idea of my understanding of heaven and reincarnation.
AOL Discs.
If it's all it's cracked up to be - infinite progression, infinite harmony, infinite love.
I just finished reading a very good book by a man who was clinically dead for 90 minutes.
It is called 90 Minutes in Heaven by Don Piper and it is great! I would encourage anyone to read it, but it especially comforted me since I lost my mom 3 years ago. We were really close. I was closest to her of all her kids. And I look forward to seeing her again someday.
When Don Piper died he saw his grandpa first, then all of his friends and relatives who had gone before him. It is a great book. He has a web site, has DVDs also and makes public appearances.
sacrebleu
widow, I'm sorry about your husband. If there is a heaven he certainly looked down at your comment about the virgins and had a good laugh. I know I did.
btw, Welcome, you must have snuck in the door when I wasn't looking.
BFD
May I respond? Thank you!
At the outset, please accept my sincere wish for peace for you and your household with regard to your loss, whether it was recent or some time ago. I have lost (and almost lost) very dear loved ones in my life, and so I know Death’s “sting.” In my very humble opinion, there is nothing else like it, no other “pain” that our flesh can undergo that even comes close (although, a broken heart can sometimes feel like death, or perhaps worse, for some; having experienced both in my life, I have to say that for me it really is no contest: Death reigns supreme in the area of causing pain. But, I digress…).
Anyway, I would like to respond to your question regarding streets of gold in heaven… and where [we] go when we die. Please note that I understand that your question is sincere, and so please know that I respond in ALL sincerity; however, it is very likely that what I share with you here may open your thread to various comments and responses that you did not intend. I apologize for that in advance and want you to know that what I share with you is true: I did not make it up. In addition, I would never take advantage of your loss in an unkind or deceitful manner. I am responding, however, because I think you deserve to know the truth and to have your sincere question answered.
I shared this information about 7 or 8 years ago on another forum like this (H20), when another asked a similar question about what happens to people when they die. I did not ask my Lord for an answer – death has never really been an issue with me (perhaps because of my own loss I just didn’t want to know) – however, I was shown what occurs and will share that with you now:
About 7 or 8 years ago, my Lord appeared to me and, after greeting me, directed me to “come” with him, to whatever place he was taking me. Because this was not my first vision, I “went,” readily. Where we went was to a place that “felt” like it was about 3-4 miles into the earth… it was not, of course… but it felt like it.
Initially, everything was dark; I could not see a thing. Things began to come into view, however, as if a light was getting brighter (like sunlight coming through a crack somewhere, with the crack enlarging, ever so slowly). When I could first focus, what I saw was that I was looking to what appeared to be a small cavern. I could see… a pile of something in the cavern, but could not initially make out what it was because it was pretty much the same color as the cavern: dust.
The light continued to get slightly brighter and eventually I could see that not only was I in some kind of cavern… but it wasn’t small. In fact, it went back into the “earth”… for miles. Many, many miles. And it was high, very high, about 12 stories high. And it was filled… with bones. Jillions upon gazillions… of bones. Piles and piles, piled all the way up… and all the way back… into the “earth.”
As I stood there taking all of this in, the room became… ummmm… more “illuminated.” The light was not “yellow,” as if lit by candles or lamps, but sort of grey-blue… that’s the best I can describe it.
Anyway, as I stood there looking (it was like I was looking into a window), my Lord took my hand and led me through the “window” and into the “cavern.” What happened next is what I want to share with you.
When I stepped in, I immediately “felt” that the bones… ummmm… saw me. And saw me looking at them. They knew I was there and they knew I saw them… and knew I knew they saw me. And I could hear them all, as if in chorus, ask “Is this it?” Somehow, I knew what was happening: they were asking “Is this the [thing/event] we’ve been waiting for”? You see, before I arrived, they had been… ummm… asleep. That’s the best way for me to describe it. And when I arrived, they “woke up” just enough to ask whether my presence, my arrival, my… ummm… being there… was what they had been waiting for. They immediately realized that it was not… and so each fell back asleep.
A couple/few things happened here:
First, I could tell they were “awake” because I could see and feel the tiniest flicker of life in them (and I mean tiny); however, I very shortly realized that they only had enough “life” in them to wake up… and ask the question; but nothing more. They did not have enough life to get up or move, of course. But what was most interesting is that they didn’t even have enough life in them know what the “it” they were waiting for was. They only had enough life in them to wake and ask the question; but realizing that “it” was not what they were waiting for, they fell right back asleep again. They were conscious… of nothing… other than (1) that they were waiting… for something… and (2) when that “something” occurred, something “else” would occur… which would involve them… and (3) that my presence was not that first something. But they had no consciousness of what those “somethings” were (what they were waiting for… and what would happen when it occurred…), or anything else. Certainly not of anything occurring in this world… or in heaven. Truly, they were conscious… of nothing.
It was then that I realized where I was: I had been taken to the world of the dead. Hades. Sheol. I then realized something else: first, that the bones belonged to male, female, old, and young. I was able to discern that by the minute amount of “life”… spirit… that each possessed. The male spirit felt totally different than the female, and the old different from the young. It was the same as in the world today, perhaps; however, they all looked exactly alike (the color of dust – which is why I couldn’t see them, initially), except some where smaller, or shorter, longer, thicker, etc. Not enormously different, but slightly, in these ways.
The second thing that I realized is…that these were not all. Not ALL of those who had died were in this place. And as soon as I realized that, I felt the spirits of all the others… and discerned the places they were: one group was in the oceans/seas (whatever body of water)… and the other group was in the spirit realm. ALL, however, were sleeping. Not sleep like we do on a daily basis, but deeper… as if, like, comatose. But even deeper. Alive… but only very slightly. And totally unconscious while asleep.
The bones I was seeing in the place I was taken (Hades/Sheol), were of those whose bones were buried in the earth, regardless of how the “burial” took place. (Please note, I totally understood that not all had been buried in the same place on the earth, but that is who these represented.) I did not see the bones of the second group (those whose bones… and spirits… were in sea) at all, but I could feel their spirits… which, like these, had only the tiniest amount of “life” in them. They were asleep, undisturbed. They did not awaken or inquire.
It was the spirits of the third group, however, that “spoke” to me the loudest… and longest. While I was not taken to the place where they were (what you may understand to be “heaven”), I was given “discernment” so that I could see, hear and feel their spirits. My spirit “bore witness” with theirs. This was a much smaller group and I could “see” and “hear” them also wake up and ask regarding the time, only their question was not “Is this it?” but “Has our time arrived?” They not only woke up long enough to ask the question, but also to listen for and take in the reply, which was “The time is not yet; rest awhile longer.” They did not argue with the reply, but returned to sleep.
After this, my attention was turned back to the bones before me and I came to understand what happens to us when we die:
1. If one belongs to the Christ – His/her spirit is taken into the spirit realm, into the “sanctuary,” a place where it is protected from “enemies,” spirit beings who wish to destroy it. There, it sleeps, awaking from time to time to inquire as to where things are in the stream of time. These have enough life in them to know that there are others like them, that some of the others are being persecuted, put to death even, that at some point they and those like them are to be restored to FULL life (i.e., life that does not die), and to ask whether that time has arrived. They cannot, however, get up, move… or do… anything else. They have some life, but not enough to truly live.
2. If one does not belong to the Christ – His/her spirit goes to rest in the place where its bones are, wherever that may be (unfortunately, I am not free to comment here on those whose bones are incinerated and scattered, other than to say that the life… and thus the spirit… is in the bones. Any further discussion must be in another thread; I am sorry). These, too, sleep, awaking from time to time to inquire; however, their question and reason for asking is different: those in the first group KNOW what they are waiting for… and why. Those in this group, however, are conscious of nothing, and so although they have enough life in them to awake and ask the question they have no idea of what the question pertains to… what they are waiting for… or why.
What is of GREATEST note, however, is that NONE of these… whether in the earth… in the sea… or in the spirit realm… were SUFFEREING. Not one. Not one was in pain, not one was in despair, not one was being tortured. ALL… were sleeping… resting… peacefully even (if you can call being comatose and not really knowing what you were waiting for “peaceful”). But none were burning, or screaming or in agony, etc.
And that is what I am to share with you:
1. There are indeed “streets of gold” in the spirit realm, they are not literal gold - that is an earthly/physical element, a terrestrial mineral. Rather, they are “streets” where the “path” is lighted, illuminated… so that one who “resides” there knows how to walk, where to put his/her steps, in that realm… SPIRITUALLY… so as not to take a false step… to such one’s own detriment. However, NONE who have died have seen them yet, for NONE who have died have been resurrected to [that place in heaven], EXCEPT the Christ. True, Lazarus and others were resurrected, but back to the earth/physical realm. When they died again, their spirits were taken either the Hades/Sheol… or to the sanctuary… where they sleep, not roam around. Some have, however, seen the “image” of them, but not the “reality.”
2. ALL who have died, whether they belong to the Christ or not, are merely asleep. They are not “burning” or otherwise “paying for their sins” or suffering for some other reason. When the rich man told Abraham to give him a drop of water to cool his tongue because he was on fire, he meant that he was afire… with SHAME… for having overlooked Lazarus and withheld his tender compassion toward him. Everyone of us knows what it feels like to “burn”… with shame and embarrassment… not over a humiliation someone else has heaped upon us, but when we come to realize our own inexcusable error. We have all experienced it, even if on a small scale. The rich man’s shame was GREAT… and so he felt as if a fire was consuming him.
3. At some point, ALL will rise. Everyone. Great and small. Good and bad. There will be a resurrection… of the righteous… AND the unrighteous. Everyone. Even Adham… and Eve. Even Judas. For although death has occurred for many, the ONLY one who has been JUDGED… is Satan. Everyone else has to wait… for the opening of the scrolls.
At any rate, I hope this eases your mind somewhat. While I understand that it still may not answer the question as to where your dear husband ultimately went, I am hoping that the fact that wherever he went he is not suffering or being tortured brings you some level of peace. The Most Holy One of Israel, who does not want ANYONE to die (indeed, it is our Adversary who is Death’s “chief agent”), is not unrighteous and to add another layer of suffering to someone’s already unbearable pain would be unkind… unloving… unmerciful… and unjust. Contrary to what you may have read about Him, He cannot be these things… and my Lord came to bear witness regarding that very TRUTH.
He, my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, wished pain on no one, agony on no one, despair on no one, suffering on no one, death on no one. To the contrary, he RELIEVED people of their pain, both physically AND spiritually… RELIEVED them of their agony… both physically AND spiritually… RELIEVED them of their despair… both physically AND spiritually… RELIEVED them of their suffering… both physically AND spiritually… and has and will relieve them of death… both physically… and spiritually.
May the undeserved kindness of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH… of Armies… and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… be upon you… if you so wish it… to time indefinite.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
heaven is a place on earth. as is hell.
some things are too sad to accept. that's where the different afterlife stories come to play. we're better off making this life as good as it gets though.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
John Lennon
October 9, 1940
V December 8, 1980
