by yesidid 18 Replies latest jw friends
In another thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/147300/2.ashx
Don Cameron quotes Ray Franz:
"It would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he selected this organization on the basis of what it had been teaching as of 1919.
To which teachings would you say he was referring?
yesidid
he is old school dont forget. think way back......
We taught Evolution then, and predestination....even that God meant for Adam to die. But worse than that is at least Christendom was still teaching man to wait on the return of Jesus....and we said everyone had missed him coming in 1847!!!!!!!.....I find that insulting.....oompa
The Watchtower in a number of older quotes (1950s-80s) states that Jesus Christ chose the Watchtower over all other religions on earth because they where the only people making quality "spiritual food" during this 1918/1919 inspection period.
Franz's comment is in reference to the book The Finished Mystery which was being circulated by the Bible Students (now Jehovah's Witnesses) at that time. The book is full of complete nonsense. Much of what is written in the book seems as if it came from a man who is mentally ill.
Franzs is basically saying that when you look at what the Watchtower was publishing during that time it can only be categorized as complete nonsense. To think that Jesus Christ actually chose the Watchtower because of what was contained in such books is an insult in his opinion.
I would like to add that the Watchtower has slightly added to it's comments since the time Franz wrote his book. They now point to things such as the rejection of hellfire and the trinity as reasons why Jesus would have chosen them. The blanket statement "quality spiritual food" is not used as often anymore.
Just wanted to add that his comment is really not about a particular claim per se, but is more about the attitude the Watchtower has about itself. To publish nonsense is one thing. To then say that the nonsense you published was the best material in circulation about the Bible at the time is another.
For the Watchtower to claim they where so great so as to recieve divine appointment because of the things they where printing at the time is absurd. Read just a few pages of The Finished Ministry and you'll see what he is talking about. In his book I believe he provides a number of quotes to make this point to the reader.
Just a quick copy and paste from info I have saved.
Was God behind all this bad food?
Did He choose the WTS because of THIS?
1913"Some have a strong desire to worship God, others have a weak desire, and others have no desire at all. This difference is due to the shape of the brain. strong Mankind are born with differences in this respect. -'Psa. 51:5'" {WR Mar 15 1913 5201} [Returning to phrenology, belief that shape of the skull and hence the brain determine character - see 1907 and 1915]
1917 "Thou wilt lengthen out leviathan (the locomotive) with a hook (automatic coupler) and a snare (coupling-pin) which will cause his tongue (coupling-link) to drop down." {TFIM 84-6} [Biblical reference to Leviathan is fulfilled by the arrival of the Locomotive Engine]
1921 "The size of the nose, as also the size of the eyes, is not without significance. The small-nosed man cannot have a judicial mind, whatever his other excellencies may be. And a man whose nose upturns can no more be expected to administer justice than a pug dog can be expected to act as a shepherd." {GA Jan 19 1921 224}
1927 "Spaniards .. and other backward races [came to settle in America under the influence of Rome]" {GA Nov 30 1927 141}
1926 "[White rulers as in Britain have the] superior mental, moral, or physical force .. [but be warned, power is slipping as the] powers of the colored races are expanding" {WT May 15 1926 483}
1926 [The distance from the Society's printing press in Scranton, Pa to the bethel offices in Brooklyn, NY, using a ferry, with a Railway Guide (extract included) to prove the distance from Lackawanna station in Scranton to Hoboken Terminal in New Jersey, is the "exact distance" referred to in the Bible at Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs"] {TFIM 230 1926 ed}
1927 "Be it known once and for all that those profiteering, conscienceless, selfish men who call themselves Jews, and who control the greater portion of the finances of the world and the business of the world, will never be the rulers in this new earth. God would not risk such selfish men with such an important position" {GA Feb 23 1927 343}
1929: "Thinking people would rather have smallpox than vaccination, because the latter sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections. Hence the practice of vaccination is a crime, an outrage and a delusion." {GA May 1 1929 502}
"Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, page 621.
"...the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." The Time Is at Hand, page 101 (1908 edition).
"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of 1914." (The Time is at Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99) Note: this same statement was contained in the 1908 edition of the same book.
1904 -
"According to our expectations, the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912, culminating with the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles' in 1914." (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 6, 1904, p. 579)
1914 "And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." {TKIC 153}
"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.
1922
"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.
1923
"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4/1/23.
1925 "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." {WT May 15 1922 150}
"The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.
"It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 page 262.
".. about April 1, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies .." {MLND 110}
"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, page 232.
(AMAZINGLY, THE WATCHTOWER ACTUALLY BLAMES THE JW'S WITH THAT ONE).
1931
"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.
1941
"Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining (((months))) before Armageddon." The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.
"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.
"Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.
"WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO 1975? .. What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now .. it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam." {WT Aug 15 1968 494}
1975
Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end. {KMIN May 1974 3}
1994
"It is not reasonable to expect that present favorable conditions for preaching the good news will continue indefinitely Besides, did not Jesus say that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? A generation, according to Psalm 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left." {WT Dec 1 1968 715} [1914 + 80 = 1994]
"Why Awake! is Published .. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." {AWAK for seven and a half years up to Oct 22 1995}
1995
"Why Awake! is Published .. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things." {AWAK from Nov 8 1995} [reference to '1914 generation' deleted]
all the best,
vinny
Here have a go at the Finished Mystery:
http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/finishedmystery/fmtitles.html
you can also view it at google books.
It was commissioned after Russell died, by Rutherford and is the source of some of the sedition charges as well as a total embarrassment to all JWs ever living.
Fact is that until 1927 the Faithful and Wise Slave was considered to be Russell. The change from 1874 to 1914 happended in the 30's.
So it is kinda like you going to the next memorial, partaking and saying you have been annointed for the last 8-12 years but are just announcing it because Jah was cleansing you.
Do you think they will believe you? Now you know why the Bible Students left.
Yknot
Vinny what more can i say, you said it all? Alright could go on but enough has been said to make the point. Your point about 1075 resonates, we came in about then and new brothers who came in then. We gave up our education- mugs.
regards llbh
Hi Martin,
Now I'm the first to admit that I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree, and that is probably the reason I'm not sure what
you mean by:
he is old school dont forget. think way back......
Would you be so kind as to explain a little more?
yesidid
Thank you Oompa, Drew, Vinny and ynot, I appreciate your replies very much.
No doubt "The Finished Mystery" is some of the worst written fiction of the twentieth century, and that alone would preclude their being "chosen".
I guess what I would like to have at the tip of my tongue (for JW relatives) is 5 or 6 major teachings current in 1919 to prove they simply could not have been "chosen" by anyone in in their right mind, let alone Jesus Christ. If those teachings contradict present teachings that would be better still.
I mean to say, who said they could change teachings approved by Christ when he "chose" them in 1919?
Thanks again
yesidid
