Which WT teachings did RAY FRANZ mean were "an insult to Jesus Christ"? (page 2)

uninformed

Thank all of you for your comments.

Vinny, Thanks for the list. I copied it to Word and printed it out and saved it.

Brant

5thGeneration

More importantly to me was that he pointed out that the Organization has basically usurped Jesus' role as Savior.

It has become through THEM that we will all survive the Big A.

yknot

1. Celebrated x-mas (1928-banned)

2. Celebrated birthdays 91951-banned)

3. All one class, no divisions

4. Faithful and Wise Slave was Russell

5. Christ was enthroned in 1874

6. Used the Cross

This is just off the top of my head.........

yesidid

Thank you ynot, and you too Vinny. That was a great list of most of their false teachings over the years. I have kept it for future reference.

Now I, with the help of you dear ones on this board have a little list of teachings that were accepted in 1919 (when Jesus was supposed to have chosen them), but are no longer believed and most of which you could now be disfellowshipped for believing.

1.Celebrated x-mas (1928-banned)

2. Celebrated birthdays 91951-banned)

3. Worshipped Jesus

4. Faithful and Wise Slave was Russell

5. Christ was enthroned in 1874

6. Used the Cross until 1931

7 Taught pyramidology

8. Taught Armageddon to come 1925,

9 Taught that Millions then living would never die.

10 Prayed to Jesus

11 . Expected the return of

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89. 1925

12. 1799 was the beginning of the time of the end.

If you think of more please let me know.

yesidid

t33ap80c

Hi Yesidid,

#1:
According to the Society's interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47* Jesus would have based his decision to appoint the Society only on what they had been teaching down till 1919. That's why Franz said "as of 1919." Therefore, whatever they were teaching after 1919 (no matter how false it was) would not have entered into his decision in 1919.

Witnesses have been trained to automatically apply Proverbs 4:18's "old light" to all of the Society's pre-1919 teachings that were not true. But it doesn't register with them that those teachings were not considered as old light in 1918-1919. And something else they don't think about is that the time to pass an examination is when it is given, not several years (sometimes decades) after the exam is over. And the Society says that Jesus' exam was over in the spring of 1919.

#2:
Personally I feel that there was one teaching in particular that would have gotten Jesus' attention. If in 1918 he had asked the question "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?" (Matthew 24:45)* they would have answered according to what they believed: "Charles Taze Russell." And so according to what they teach today, the Society would have failed that most important question.

How faithful or discreet could the Society have been when it is realized that God didn't let them know (1) that his Son had returned in 1914 (assuming he did return in that year), nor (2) who his Son's "slave" was?

According to their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47*, in the spring of 1919 Jesus was saying to them, "You are my faithful and discreet slave." But according to their actual history they were saying, "We are not your faithful and discreet slave."

If Jesus did in fact try to appoint Rutherford and his associates "over all his belongings" in 1919, they would have rejected his offer because they believed that Russell had already received that appointment.

The Point: The only way the Society even has a chance of being "God's organization" today is if what went on in their history actually happened according to their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47.* But since their history and their interpretation do not agree on such critical matters (and the other pre-1919 teachings already mentioned on this thread), this is why Ray Franz and many others feel that it would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he was so pleased with what they had been teaching as of 1919 that he gave them the awesome appointment mentioned in verse 47.
_____________________
* Here is their interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47 as it appears on page 24 of the January 15, 2008 Watchtower:

"When Christ inspected the faithful and discreet slave' in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual 'food at the proper time.' Hence, Jesus was pleased thereafter to appoint them 'over all his belongings .' (Read Matthew 24:45-47)"

Don Cameron

bennyk

(Recycled old post [23. Oct. 2006]:)

W 01. April 1986 QfR:
Do we have Scriptural precedent for taking such a strict position? Indeed we do! Paul wrote about some in his day: "Their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:17, 18; see also Matthew 18:6.) There is nothing to indicate that these men did not believe in God, in the Bible, in Jesus’ sacrifice. Yet, on this one basic point, what they were teaching as to the time of the resurrection, Paul rightly branded them as apostates, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship.

This is most fascinating. When the F&DS was supposedly appointed in 1919, the Watch Tower Society was still teaching that the Resurrection had begun in 1878 -- a teaching not altered until 1927 -- and which teaching the WTS now rejects as false. Does it not bugger the imagination to believe the Lord appointed over all his belongings an organisation that (by its own published standard) would be 'rightly branded apostate, with whom faithful Christians would not fellowship'?

TopHat

1926 [The distance from the Society's printing press in Scranton, Pa to the bethel offices in Brooklyn, NY, using a ferry, with a Railway Guide (extract included) to prove the distance from Lackawanna station in Scranton to Hoboken Terminal in New Jersey, is the "exact distance" referred to in the Bible at Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs"] {TFIM 230 1926 ed} So laughable, Hahahahhaha

yesidid

Hi Don,

Thanks for replying on the thread. I like the way you think and appreciate your contributions to this board.

I downloaded your book when it came out and think it is brilliant.

Thank you Bennyk,

Yours is a brilliant point. You prove they were apostates at the time according to the Bible. Wonderful.

I've not noticed that before, although Don may have mentioned it in his book. (Rotton memory).

Thank you Tophat for contributing to the thread.

yesidid

startingover

Lots of goodies to cut and paste on this thread. Thanks

Which WT teachings did RAY FRANZ mean were "an insult to Jesus Christ"?

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