What Can You Say to Jehovah's Witnesses Lame Excuses ?

by flipper 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Excellent thread going Flipper. You already have a good collection of logical answers. True dat about not letting them get their defenses up. But you're "out", right? In that case, when they are around you it will be "shields up". And you are correct that the NBC story is going to be huge. If you don't have it printed out, go to MSNBC.com, search Jehovah's Witness lawsuits and it'll be right there. Print out several copies to always have on hand.

    Remember the JWs excellent 'reasoning' skills including 'don't overwhelm the householder with too much information on the first call', 'establish a common ground', and 'use leading questions to help them come to the right conclusion'. Don't forget 'overcoming objections & potential conversation stoppers'. So before the householder can say "I'm busy", the publisher says, "Hi, You're probably busy, so I'll briefly sharing these journals..."

    Currently, I'm still 'in' and an elder. It's no big deal if a brother or sister comes up and asks about the NBC news, they'll swallow those excuses or be disfellowshipped. What's scary is when a householder confronts a JW with a copy of that and won't swallow one of those excuses. Scary is when the publisher comes up and says, "A householder knew the story and asked if there were any pedophiles hidden in our congregation and I didn't know what to say, so I said I'd have one of the elders come back right away and answer all his questions. I'm sure you have information from the Society that will clear up all these Satanic lies, right? WT isn't really paying money from the Worldwide Work to silence children that were raped by brothers, are they?" etc.

    More later. It's past my bedtime.

  • flipper
    flipper

    DAWG- Not much difference between Catholics , Jw's , or any of the religions in my opinion.

    TATIANA- Good you copied those suggestions from everybody ! It will help you talk with witness friends or relatives !

    BIZZY BEE- That's the problem with the witnesses. Like Russell said the JW's new light is always contradicting the former truths they held .

    BILLY the BETHELITE- Welcome to the board ! We can always use current elders on this board to keep us informed as to what is going on in the inside of the org. I have printed up the NBC news report from their website and sent copies of it to my daughters and mom and dad who are witnesses. Did I hear you say, or are you serious that if the publishers won't swallow the excuses by the society given on NBC, that they will be disfellowshipped ? Your'e joking, right ? Tell me it's a joke. Or are you serious, please reply and let me know

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I'm exaggerating about being DFd. I was just trying to emphasize this contrast:

    Situation #1 ---

    Sister: "I have a lot of questions about this child abuse scandal."

    Elder: "Just have faith in Jehovah. He'll take care of it in his due time. Perhaps you should spend more time reading the Bible, studying Christian publications, and engaging in the ministry."

    Sister: "But my questions..."

    Elder: "Now Sister, you remember those parts on the District Convention program telling us to have strong faith in Jehovah's spirit anointed Governing Body."

    Sister: "Yes Brother. I'll be good."

    The End.

    Situation #2 ---

    Sister: "Brother Elder, while I was in Field Service, a householder gave me this article about a JW child abuse scandal. I didn't know what to say, so I said I'd send one our older, experienced, qualified elders who would answer every one of his questions. I'd love to work with you this Saturday and take you right to his door and listen to your mature, spirit inspired answers that the anointed Faithful and Discreet Slave has provided."

    Elder: "OH SH-T! Er, uh, I would love to, uh, but, I have to, uh, go in for, uh, brain surgery this weekend. Yeah, brain surgery. Say, why don't you invite Brother..."

  • VM44
    VM44

    The Witnesses have already made up their minds to follow The Watchtower.

    Any excuses they make are made up off the top of their heads, that is, made up without much thought in order to explain away anything that makes them uncomfortable.

    Cult!

    --VM44

  • alamb
    alamb

    I have argued until I am blue in the face and deduced you cannot reason with unreasonable people.

    NOW: I just grin. If they are talking to me, they have seedlings of doubt they want me to bring up so they can hear themselves argue against me/it/their own consciences. If I let it lie, it grows.

  • Lo-ru-hamah
    Lo-ru-hamah
    They are imperfect men and they make mistakes?

    In the past my reply has been then why are they the only ones allowed to make mistakes. The catholic church has imperfect men that make mistakes, the baptist church has imperfect men that make mistakes, etc. Why not the same allowances for all imperfect men?

    One time someone said, "Well, that is true but they are the only imperfect men that use Jehovahs name." My reply, the bible didn't lay that as a criteria for being his chosen religion. Then, the circular reasoning comes out.

    My dad, Uninformed, was speaking to a witness a couple weeks ago and he was discussing with her why they were dfed. She said that he just took it too seriously. My parents just believed it too much. He told her that wasn't this our eternal life that we are dealing with and she said that it didn't really matter and that you can do what you want.

    There really isn't any reasoning with them.

    Sheri

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Flipper..

    I will take these four:

    Humans are just imperfect- they make mistakes

    True. But these humans claim to be Spirit Directed, so is it really reasonable to believe God's Spirit allow them to make the kind of mistakes that would mislead and even kill thousands, for years before changing?? Example: Organ transplants, and Blood Fractions.

    The holy spirit directed it , so it must be right

    (I LOVE this one!!) Ask them to get out their dictionary and look up "directed", and the word "inspired". They will be most suprised that they both mean the same thing, and that is to be guided. So when they say..we are not inspired, but we are Spirit directed..it is simply a "play" on words. So to take it one step further..if they in fact are inspired, or being guided by the spirit..who keeps getting things wrong? Mere self appointed men? Or God's Holy Spirit??

    Where else will we go ?

    I have had several JWs throw this at me! They use this phrase from a scripture where one of the disciples is saying to Jesus.."who would we follow?" Not "Where would we go?" So when asked this, I have simply corrected them, by saying the scripture actually is talking about following Christ, not what "church" you had to belong to.

    The light got brighter

    (My FAVORITE!!) First of all this expression as used in the Scriptures has nothing to do with how it is applied by the JWs, if you read the context of the Scripture.

    Second, if you used their "light gets brighter" reasoning, it would only work if something stayed the same. For example: We know from the scriptures God does not change, and we know he cannot lie. So.. if his Holy Spirit is truely guiding or directing the organization, policies that have been set in place from the onset of the organization , could never "flip flop" if he trely was guiding them. What was wrong would still be wrong, and what was right , would still be right.

    Take for instance Blood. For years the policy was, it was to be poured out. You could not even use gardening products to keep the deer away that were made from "stored" blood, right?? But now..fractions are a conscience mattter. No longer a grave sin, worthy of disfellowshipping.

    Ah... but they are fractions the JWs say. True. But you cannot sinthetically make fractions can you? The only way to make or get a fraction is from someone elses, STORED WHOLE BLOOD! Someone donated their blood, it was stored, and broken down all for someone else to use a fraction of it. And furthermore, why can JWs take fractions from stored blood, but cannot donate blood to be made into fractions for others??

    Oh.. but the light gets "brighter, they say?? Well..something that was from God and considered wrong will be forever wrong in his eyes. Remember the scriptures say he CANNOT change. So, if the policy for no blood was truely from him, and we know he cannot change, then who exactly is doing the changing?? Couldn't it only be mere men, who are clearly not being guided by God??

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • flipper
    flipper

    BILLY the EX- BETHELITE- I see what you meant. You were just showing the contrast of the elders responses to the publishers. Got it !

    VM44- That is true what you say. They already have their pre-informed status quo excuses made up in their head. It's almost impossible at times to break through these.

    ALAMB- I too have become physically exhausted trying to reason with witnesses. I agree with you some times it's better to let sleeping dogs lie so to speak, and let them work it out on their own.

    LORUHAMAH- I agree they are a lot harder on the Catholic church than themselves. I agree there is no reasoning ability in them.

    LADY LIBERTY- I love your reasoning on these points you shared. You have a common sense approach which really works ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • golf2
    golf2

    I don't waste my time because they can't think for themselves.


    Golf

  • flipper
    flipper

    GOLF 2- You are right , they can't think for themselves ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

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