Gentlemen, Ladies and Muslims!!!! (page 2)

dinah

Still trying to figure out how you would go #2 standing up.

Mary - I'm afraid this is the case. The maintenace dept at the firm had been trying to find out who it was that was vandalising the gents toilets regularly by ripping off the toilet seats. It seems that one of the blokes may have hurt himself on one of his standing stunts and is now demanding a special toilet so that he doesn't shit every where and damage the toilets for everyone else!

nvrgnbk

Ironically, I am under the impression that it is preferred by many Muslim men to urinate while sitting, so as to avoid getting droplets of urine on oneself.

Here is some interesting reading...

Al-ghurabah 23-10-05, 03:24 PM Aadaab ut Takhallie
Etiquette of going to the toilet

Adab ul-istitaaba - etiquette of cleaning yourself

Salman al-Farsi:
"A Mushrik came and asked "did your friend teach you how to defecate?" he said "yes he did", the Mushrik asked, "What did he teach you?" "He forbade us to clean with your right hand, and forbade us to face the qiblah, and he forbade us to use the bones or dried excrement."Muslim 262, Musnad Imam Ahmad 23191(/9 not sure), Ibn Majah 316

1 - PROHIBITION OF THE 3 CURSED THINGS

"Be careful of the 3 cursed things, urinating, defecating, (and flatulating) and spitting (with phlegm) in any sources (rivers, seas, oceans, wells etc) and in the middle of the road (where people walk) and from under the shade."Abu Dawood 26, Ibn Majah 328

Abu Huraira
The Prophet (saw) Said: "Be careful of the two cursed things,"

He replied, "What are the two cursed things oh messenger?"

The Prophet (saw) said: "what people dropped in middle of the way, or in the shade. (And keep distance from doing it)""Muslim 269, Musnad Imam Ahmad 8636, Abu Dawood 25

Mu'az said: "The sources are (rivers, seas, oceans, free running water or stagnant water)…

Allah (swt) said: "And those who harm the believers, male and female, it is forbidden."

Imam Nawawi said: "It is not allowed to defecate or urinate or throw dirt in the places where people benefit from."

It is allowed in bushes far away from the people, where nobody sits in shade, and is not in the path of people or places where no people will go etc.

2 - IT IS FORBIDDEN TO URINATE IN WATER.

Jabir ibn Abdullah
"The Prophet (saw) said: "It is forbidden to urinate in stagnant water""Muslim 281, Musnad Imam Ahmad 14258, Ibn Majah 343

For greater reason it is not allowed to defecate in it

Imam Nawawi said: "If the water is a lot and is flowing and attached to the seas or river, it is permissible or makrouh."

If it is a child, it is ok if it is not stagnant, but otherwise take it generally whether stagnant or flowing.

3 - DO NOT ENTER THE BATHROOM WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS ALLAH WRITTEN ON IT.

In the case of things like money (e.g. in Saudi Arabia) it is permissible as long as it is put away as much as possible.
(English is allowed)

Prohibited to go in to the Toilet with the Qur'an

Nor make any zhikr or talk in the toilet.

4 -PROHIBITION TO FACE THE QIBLAH WHEN DEFECATING OR URINATING

Abu Ayyub Al-Ansari
The Prophet (saw) said: "If any one of you want to defecate, he should not face the qiblah, nor have his back to the qiblah, he should face the east or the west."Bukhari 144, Muslim 264 (a/narration " whether urinating or defecating"), Musnad Imam Ahmad 23003

Some fuquha say it is haram in front of the Ka'aba, but makrouh if you are far away.

Abdullah ibn Umar: "Some People say if you are going to the toilet, do not face the qiblah nor bait ul-Maqdis. One day I stood up on the roof of my house and saw the Prophet (saw) urinate facing Jerusalem." Bukhari 145, Muslim 266

Salman al-Farsi: "Mushrik came … he forbade us to face the qiblah when urinating or defecating.Muslim 262, Musnad Imam Ahmad 23191(/9 not sure), Ibn Majah 316

Jabir ibn Abdullah: "The Prophet (saw) forbade us to face the qiblah when urinating, however I saw him one year before he passed away, and he was facing it."

Some fuquha say not allowed in open space, but in a close place, in front of wall etc. there is a permit if you cannot change the position.

OBM opinion, in open space is HARAM, in close place, if you avoid it for the sake of Allah, there is reward.

5 - THE DU'A FOR GOING TO THE TOILET

Zaid bin Arqam
The Prophet (saw) said: "This place is where the shayateen gather." Musnad Imam Ahmad 18800,Ibn Majah 296

This is why; the Sunnah is not to spend a lot of time in the toilet.

You enter the toilet by the left, and leave by the right. (Foot)

Imam 'Ali: "The Prophet (saw) said: "the cover of the awrah when he wants to enter the house of the shaytan (toilet), is to say bismillah, then to say A'udhubillah min al-kubthi wal- khaba'ith""Bukhari 142, Ibn Majah 297, Tirmizi 606

Anas reported: "When the Prophet entered the Toilet he said allahuma inni a'udhubika min al kubuthi wal khaba'ith" Bukhari 142, Muslim 375, Musnad Imam Ahmad 11536

6 - YOU MUST COVER UP AS MUCH AS YOU CAN WHEN YOU ARE IN THE TOILET.

It is recommended to cover yourself as much as you can when you are fulfilling your need.

Al Mughirah ibn Shu'ba: "I was travelling with the Prophet (saw), he asked me to take the lead, so I took it, after that he went to urinate, he went in such a way that no one could see him, and was wearing a shaami jubba, and showed only enough to fulfil his need."Bukhari 363, Muslim 274, Musnad Imam Ahmad 17668, Abu Dawood 151

It is a Prophetic etiquette, to cover yourself as much as possible.

"He left us to urinate in a place so dark and far away until we could not see him anymore." Muslim , Ahmad

"The Prophet (saw) was so far away that we could not recognise him"

When you leave the toilet say "Ghufranak"

A'isha said: "Whenever the Prophet (saw) left the toilet he said " Ghufranak"."Musnad Imam Ahmad 24694, Abu Dawood 30

7 - TO STAND OR SIT DURING URINATION.

A'isha: "Whoever said they saw the Prophet (saw) urinate standing, do not listen to them I saw him do it sitting."

Hudhaifah said: "I saw the Prophet (saw) urinate standing."

The Fuquha say it is the strongest evidence to do it standing.
- To avoid impurity
- To be able to see if anybody is there.

The Prophet (saw) did both, so we accept both. And anybody who says there is a recommendation either way, then it is an innovation.

8 - IT IS FORBIDDEN TO USE THE RIGHT HAND TO CLEAN YOURSELF.

Because everything with karama is done with the right, and anything with no karama, you do with the left.

Abu Qatada: "The Prophet (saw) said: "If anyone is urinating, he should not touch his private parts with his right hand, nor make istinja with the right. Nor have tanaffus (blowing in the food.)""

(From this hadith you can also extract that you are not allowed to eat in the toilet.)

Bukhari 153, Muslim 267, Musnad Imam Ahmad 18927

Another Narration
"No one should use your right hand when urinating or defecating"

9 - AL ISTINJA WAL ISTIJMAR (CLEANING BY WATER AND STONE)

Cleaning after urinating
- Shake it 3 times
- Dry with 3 stones (Istijmar)
(Or anything dry and absorbent)
- Wash it (Istibrar)
- Dry it

After Defecating
- Remove all faeces
- Dry the area with 3 stones
- Wash it
- Dry it (not necessary just for comfort)

Abu Huraira
"I was with the Prophet (saw) and he went to urinate, he was not looking, and I went close to him, he said:

"Get me a stone for istijmar, do not get me bones, nor the dung of animals."

I got it for him and left it near him and left."

Bukhari 155

Use Water or stone or both
Water is enough.
JUST MAKE SURE THERE IS NOTHING LEFT.

10 - PROHIBITION FOR USING DUNG OR BONES FOR ISTIJMAR

Abdullah ibn Mas'oud: "I went to get 3 stones for the Prophet (saw) to make istijmar, but I could not find three, so I gave him 2 stones, and 1 piece of dung. He took the stones and threw the dung, and said: "that is not acceptable."Bukhari 156, Musnad Imam Ahmad 3677, Ibn Majah 313

"Do not make istijmar with bones or dung … … it is the rizq of the jinn."Bukhari 3800

"There is no Istijmar with less than three stones and if you make istijmar make it odd."

Bukhari 161, Muslim 237, Musnad Imam Ahmad 7180

You cannot make istijmar with the food of men either

The women have to make istinja with water first.

11 - IT IS FORBIDDEN TO SPEAK IN THE TOILET, EXCEPT WITH SHARI'AH PERMIT.

"A man said salaam to the Prophet (saw) while he was in the toilet, he did not answer the salaam."An-Nasaa'i 37, Ibn Majah 353

Imam Nawawi said.

- It is allowed only for the necessity of the toilet, (eg. To ask for stones, or water.)
- Or to warn people in an emergency etc

[Sharh Muslim]

in_exile 23-10-05, 03:33 PM OBM opinion, in open space is HARAM, in close place, if you avoid it for the sake of Allah, there is reward.

al muhajiroun hey i thought some of the opinions looked dodgy, it is biddah to reccomend sitting down and going toilet hey, still as crazy as ever i see

Abdurahman 23-10-05, 03:47 PM 7 - TO STAND OR SIT DURING URINATION.
The Prophet (saw) did both, so we accept both. And anybody who says there is a recommendation either way, then it is an innovation.

Although its permissible to urinate sitting down and urinate standing up, it is actually reccomended to urinate sitting down.

Question :

What is the Shari ruling regarding standing while urinating?
There is a hot debate here regarding this. Wile some claim that it is permissible others claim it is haram. Their argument is that there is a hadith in which Aisha says that whoever tells you that the prophet urinated while standing do not believe him. Please clarify the issue.

Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.

It is not haraam for a man to urinate standing up, but it is Sunnah for him to urinate sitting down, because ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “Whoever tells you that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to urinate standing up, do not believe him. He only ever used to urinate sitting down.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, al-Tahaarah, 12; he said, this is the most saheeh report on this topic. It was also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 11). And because this is more concealing, and it reduces the risk of any drops of urine splashing up onto him.

It was narrated from ‘Umar, Ibn ‘Umar and Zayd ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with them) that it is allowed to urinate standing up on the condition that there is no risk of drops of urine splashing onto one’s body or clothes, and that one does not expose one's ‘awrah, because al-Bukhaari and Muslim narrated from Hudhayfah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to a garden belonging to some people, and urinated standing up. There is no contradiction between this and the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), because it is possible that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did that because he was in a place where he was unable to sit down, or he did that to show the people that it is not haraam. This does not contradict the basic principle mentioned by ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) urinated sitting down, because it is Sunnah, it is not something waajib (obligatory) which it is forbidden to go against. And Allaah knows best.

Fatawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/88 .

Shaykh Ibn Baaz said,
There is nothing wrong with urinating standing up, especially when there is a need to do so, if the place is covered and no one will see the ‘awrah of the one who is urinating and no drops of urine will get on him, because it was narrated from Hudhayfah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went to the garden of some people and urinated standing up. (Saheeh, agreed upon). But it is better to urinate sitting down, because this is what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) usually did, and it is more effective in covering the ‘awrah and less likely to result in any drops of urine getting on him.

(www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com/))

UU Now

In researching this problem, my friend discovered that the local University had to spend £15,000 on toilets for its Muslim students and these toilets are 'Muslims Only'!

What university is this?

I've heard of universities installing footbaths so that Muslims can wash their feet before praying without standing in the sink. The "Muslims stand to defecate" thing is a new one one me. Frankly, it sounds anatomically impossible. I can believe squatting, but not standing.

Gill

nvrgnbk - And I thought the JWs had a rule for everything!!!

Gill

Leicester University, United Kingdom

Awakened07

Hey now - if God wants them to stand on the toilet seat to poop instead of sitting down, who are we to judge?

Have some respect for the Creator of the Universe here, I'm sure He has His reasons for wanting people to stand while they poop.

On a more serious note, I've heard of this practice here as well, but this is just "performed" by a small group of Muslims, surely? I cringe at the need for a question mark after that sentence, 'cause it makes me seem ignorant, but since I'm not 100% certain...

I think it's mostly Africans (Somalians?) who do this, but I may be very wrong. Perhaps more of a cultural thing than religious?

Gill

I've just asked and these Muslims are British Muslims and not born and bred in another country.

Guest with Questions

It's really hard to believe that some people actually do this. I did find this article though about some of their rituals. Bizarre

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=e96c4e8a-2b06-4b66-95f4-182324e1ca39&k=40658

For years, practising muslims at UBC such as Alsalman have gathered in public washrooms at Brock Hall up to five times each day to carefully wash their hands, face and feet in preparation for daily prayers.
It's a necessary ritual, symbolizing the cleansing of body and soul prior to prayer, said Alsalman.
It's also been messy.
Students, he said, must hop on one foot, holding the other up to waist-high sinks, all the while keeping a hand on the faucet in order to keep the water flowing.
It's not uncommon for water to spill all over the floor -- an inconvenience for everyone using the interfaith facility.
"We have had complaints in the past," Alsalman said.

Confession

This is surprising (to say the least.) I'm trying to understand it. Is it that they aren't supposed to sit down at all--even while defecating? Or is it a strict "No Sitting Whilst Defecating" rule?

And, if they're to stand, why not straddle the toilet while standing? Why in thunderation do they actually stand on the seat? Is there a minimum drop height requirement?

Gentlemen, Ladies and Muslims!!!!

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