Amusing
Thank you very much
Feb 15th Watchtower Study Edition - NEW LIGHT - Article in PDF
by AlphaOmega 65 Replies latest watchtower bible
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neverendingjourney
Gary -
Religious witnesses and social witnesses. That's a good way to break down JW membership nowadays. The number of religious witnesses is dwindling, however. Growing up in the 80s there were more than a few elders who could quote the Bible and the society's publications to no end. They spent countless hours studying WT chronology and prophetic interpretation. Most of these guys came in during the late 70s and were convinced that the world was about to end. They didn't think there was any way mankind would survive the Cold War. They were masters of communicating the society's take on types/antitypes and prophetic explanations.
By the time I embraced JWism during the mid 90s, those guys had started to cool off. Eighty years since 1914 had come and gone in 1994. The teeth were taken out of the generation teaching in 1995. By that point or shortly thereafter, those guys had run out of steam and were no longer elders or were in the process of stepping down or being removed. All of those elders eventually settled in quite nicely to the role of social witnesses. They stopped quoting the society non stop in their conversations. They became much less regular at meetings and field service, but they were still there. They were never able to bring themselves to accept the fact that they had been duped. The new batch of elders that replaced them were much less intelligent. Those guys were simply company men willing to do whatever the society said. The congregation gained much more of a social club feeling. My guess is that doctrine will be emphasized less and less in the future to the point that the society will offer little more explanation for what they teach than to say "because we say so." The social witnesses don't need a Biblical explanation anyhow.
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golf2
Ah, their doing the same thing again. They did with the "Higher Powers" understanding in Romans. These guys should be good at playing tennis.
Golf -
Midget-Sasquatch
Just because Jesus was saying how his apostles would be able to know the end was soon (just like figs would be coming soon), doesn't mean that he was talking about them when he said "this generation" will not pass. Even in this very WT article, they have to admit that in all other instances where this "generation" is spoken of, its usually in negative terms, and always about unbelievers. So what in this verse or passage requires us to look for any other group to be referenced? Carefully consider the context they say?
Well according to the supposed connection they were trying to emphasize in the illustration of the figs: They (i.e the apostles and so the Anointed) would see all these things. And so whats the point of the statement "This generation will not pass until all these things occur." Well duhhh...if they'll be seeing all these things go down they've got to be around!
But if one reads a few verses earlier still where Jesus is talking about the sun and the moon and then the sign of the Son of Man, its quite explicit that Jesus was talking about how everyone will be seeing these things. It'll be sad times for the unbelievers. They didn't see it coming till it was upon them basically. Then Jesus makes the contrast with his believers who'll be able to discern things as they're developing. A little later on he also talks about Noah and how everyone else except the eight didn't really catch on till it was too late. To me it seems, each and every time there's a contrast of believer and unbeliever and the unbelievers will eventually see how the believers were right. So having "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 be the wicked generation makes more sense since its making a point. You have that completion of the unbelievers getting whats coming to them. Having that verse be more like "don't worry faithful followers, you will not disappear until all these things happen" loses the contrast, as I see it and once again makes a sort of dumb repeated statement. Then again, this may be a weak counter-argument. But simply, allowing the text to speak for itself, I don't see why the gerenation in this verse should be a different group than the one referenced all the other times.
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zugzwang
Okay, this doesn't make sense.
So the new teaching is that "this generation" refers to the "anointed" as a group. From the first apostles clear down to those who profess to be "anointed" today. If that is the case why didn't Jesus simply say, " Truly I say to YOU that m y church (or "my people", or "my bride", or "my followers") will by no means pass away until all these things occur. "
Wouldn't that make more sense. Why not just say, "You, followers of mine, will by no means pass away until all these things occur."
I mean seriously, each interpretation gets more rediculous than the one before.
The generation that Jesus was talking about is obvious, just read the context. In verses 37 thru 39 Jesus describes the "generation" as being just like the people in Noah's day-
" For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."
That is the "generation" that Jesus was referring to, in my opinion. That is why the 1995 interpretation was at least plausible. (Although the reason for the 1995 change had to do with 1914 + 80 = 1994, thus the even older interpretation had failed and thus they had to roll out the "new light".) When I say plausible I mean that, that interpretation recognized the "generation" as being individuals that could be described as behaving like those mentioned in verses 37 thru 39. People just living their lives, wrapped up in their own little worlds, paying no attention to what is going on in the world around them. That sounds like the world today. So, while the reasons for adopting that 1995 interpretation were not presented honestly by the WTS at least, contextually speaking, that interpretation fit.
But this new interpretation just completely ignores the context. Not only does it ignore the context but it calls upon the reader to accept the notion that Jesus was saying that "this generation" would span a period of time that is coming up on 2,000 years of human history. Completely ridiculous!
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hawkaw
Thanks for this pdf.
hawk
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bite me
After reading the article it points out a very good point... As recorded at Matthew 24:32,33 Jesus said: "Now learn from the fig tree as an illustraion this point; Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and puts forth leaves you now that summer is near. Likewise you , when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors." I just realized something about my figtree.
Okay, so my figtree is queer.. its young branch is growing tender and putting forth leaves, but summer is not near ...that must only mean one thing .
Just kidding, no fig tree in my yard.
What a joke that article is. I can see those who are trapped into that will totally miss that 'new light" going on. People are actually going to belive.
So how does that work, they pass the articles out before and then on the day of the magazine they actually go through it at the church? Someone will have to share with us how that goes.
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Midget-Sasquatch
Hi Biteme,
The dubs get their magazines a few months in advance. For example, here in Canada, they've already had the Jan 2008 Study Edition of the WT for over a month now. Coming this Tuesday there'll be another shipment of WT literature in the Golden Horseshoe here and I'd wager that it will contain the Feb 2008 Study Edition (since the last shipment already brought the Jan Public editions and the Jan Awake).The articles within the magazines are typically dated as being studied in the following month though.
This latest change will hopefully wake up a few people, but I fear the majority are like my sibling (who already knew about the new light since the circuit overseer mentioned it to all the pioneers in their meeting) and just accept it as yes making good sense.
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cultswatter
Pre 1995
The "generation" applys primarily to the great crowd and secondarily to the remnant
Time period of "generation" Start: 1914 or prior to 1914. End: great tribulation (big A)1995 - 2008
The "generation" applys primarily to the great crowd and secondarily to the remnant
Time period of "generation" Start:(No start time given but does NOT start counting from 1914) . End: great tribulation (big A)2008-?
The "generation" applys exclusively to the remnant
Time period of "generation" Start:1914 or any time thereafter . End: great tribulation (big A)------------
Is that right??
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drew sagan
2008-?
The "generation" applys exclusively to the remnant
Time period of "generation" Start:1914 or any time thereafter . End: great tribulation (big A)
I think there is an important point to remember about this. Usually when we thought about 'this generation' when it comes to Watchtower thinking our minds become fixated on the generation of 1914. This is because in order for 'old light' to work we where looking at the last possible generation that could have been alive in 1914.
But this new light makes it much differant. The key question is "when did the generation of the second fulfillment begin?". Remember that now the criteria is simply that it is the "anointed" who discern the presence after 1914. That means that the "generation" started much sooner that 1914. Anybody born in the 1800's who lived through 1914 is game.
The answer to this is totally up for grabs, but let us do some very conservative estimates. Let us say a man born in 1850 joined the Russelite movement, lived through 1914 at the age of 64 and untill the year of his death (lets say 1934) "discerned christs presence".
This means that the generation streatched much farther back. There may have been people who where even older than the example I have given. If my estimate is at all a basic idea of what could be assumed we would be looking at "this generation" spaning a time frame from over 157 years!
Is 157 years "excessively long" as the magazine puts it?
Another question. When did the generation of the first fulfillment "pass away"?
The end of the generation of the first fulfillment and the beginning of the generation of the second fulfillment seem to be some of the biggest holes in this mess of a theology IMO. (there are many others, but I find these two striking)